Carol Dweck and Top Podcasters Redefine the Growth Mindset

Carol Dweck:  

Welcome. I’m Carol Dweck, and for decades I’ve studied what helps people grow—not just in performance, but in who they believe they can become.

At the heart of this series is one core idea: your abilities are not fixed—they can be developed. But as simple as that sounds, I’ve learned something humbling over the years: believing in your potential doesn’t always come naturally.

Sometimes, we need a conversation. A mirror. A moment of truth.

So I’ve invited some of today’s most powerful communicators—podcasters, storytellers, thought leaders—to join me in asking five essential questions about what it really means to grow in a world that judges, rushes, and often forgets our humanity.

This is not about lectures. It’s about curiosity. And it starts with us asking together:

What if the way we see failure, effort, and worthiness is holding back our best selves?

Let’s find out—together.

(Note: This is an imaginary conversation, a creative exploration of an idea, and not a real speech or event.)

Topic 1: Redefining Failure — What If It’s the Beginning, Not the End?

Carol Dweck (Moderator, Opening)

One of the biggest myths we carry is that failure means you're not good enough—that it's proof of a fixed limit. But my research over the decades shows the opposite: failure is information. It tells us what to work on, not who we are. Yet even knowing this, many of us still feel crushed when we fall short.

So today, I want to begin with this question:

Have you ever had a failure that, in hindsight, became the foundation for your greatest growth?

Ed Mylett

Absolutely. Early in my career, I was passed over for a promotion I thought I had earned. It broke me. I remember sitting in my car, crying, thinking, “Maybe I’m not as talented as I believed.” But after the anger passed, I got real honest. I realized I wasn’t developing people—I was performing. That shift—leading instead of proving—changed my trajectory forever. That failure taught me leadership is service, not validation.

Mel Robbins

I hear that, Ed. For me, it was hitting rock bottom in my marriage and career. I was so ashamed, I couldn’t even look at myself in the mirror. That’s when I invented the 5-second rule—not as a productivity hack, but as a way to interrupt the spiral of self-doubt. That lowest moment became my laboratory. If you’re willing to start, even with shaky legs, failure becomes the spark. Not the shame.

Jay Shetty

What you both said reminds me of a monk lesson: Attachment to outcome is the root of suffering. I used to equate success with being accepted—by my family, society, the world. When I left the monk path and started from scratch, I felt like I failed both identities. But that “in-between” failure taught me the difference between external approval and internal peace. That space is where my voice was born.

Lewis Howes

I relate to all of this. I grew up believing failure was weakness. When I got injured as a pro athlete, I thought my life was over. But sitting on my sister’s couch for a year—broke, depressed—I started reading about business, mindset, healing. That failure stripped me of identity, but it gave me access to everything I never made time to learn. Looking back, that injury saved me.

Carol Dweck

There’s a theme I’m hearing—failure cracks something open. So let me ask:

What’s the mindset shift that helped you stop seeing failure as a verdict and start seeing it as data or direction?

Jay Shetty

The shift was realizing I’m not my thoughts. Just because I failed doesn’t mean I am a failure. I had to create a pause between event and identity. That space is where growth mindset lives. I tell myself now, “This is an experience, not an identity.” It’s data, like you said, Carol—not destiny.

Mel Robbins

Yes. And we forget that failure often means you were brave enough to try. I started saying, “I’m not behind—I’m building.” That simple language trick reframes the spiral. I now teach people to celebrate the attempt. Trying and failing is way more honorable than waiting for perfect conditions and never starting.

Lewis Howes

My mindset shift was learning to be curious. I stopped asking, “Why did I screw up?” and started asking, “What does this reveal?” That one question helped me treat failure like a teammate, not a critic. It’s now part of my feedback loop, not my self-worth.

Ed Mylett

Mine came from mentorship. I realized I needed to outgrow my ego. Most of my pain came from trying to look successful, not be successful. Now I ask, “Am I aligned with who I want to become, or just trying to be liked?” That distinction makes failure feel like refinement, not punishment.

Carol Dweck

I love how all of you have developed what I’d call a “relationship with failure.” It’s no longer an enemy. So here’s my final question:

If you could teach the next generation one thing about failure, what would it be—and how would you show them?

Mel Robbins

I’d say: Start ugly. Show your kids or your team your early drafts, your flops, your missteps. Normalize the mess. Let them see that what looks polished now was once a disaster. That’s how we de-shame the process.

Lewis Howes

I’d teach them emotional resilience—how to stay rooted in their worth even when outcomes shift. I’d use stories, not lectures. Let them feel that failure is survivable. That it might even be sacred.

Ed Mylett

I’d teach kids that failure is a mirror, not a jail cell. I’d show them examples where failure launched greatness. From athletes to authors. Let them know every setback carries seeds—if they choose to plant them.

Jay Shetty

I’d teach meditation and reflection. Give them tools to observe their thoughts. Let them experience failure without over-identifying with it. I’d remind them: You are not your last mistake. You are your next step.

Carol Dweck

Thank you all. What you’ve shared proves what I’ve believed for decades: the story we tell ourselves about failure is more powerful than failure itself. If we can change that story—from shame to shape, from limit to lesson—we open the door to real, lifelong growth.

Let’s continue telling that story out loud.

Topic 2: Is Grit Enough Without Compassion?

Carol Dweck (Moderator, Opening)

We often celebrate grit—the perseverance to keep going no matter what. But grit without emotional intelligence can lead to burnout, self-criticism, or even cruelty toward others and ourselves. In my work, I’ve seen that a healthy growth mindset requires not just effort, but compassion—for ourselves and others.

So I’d like to begin with this:

Have you ever had to unlearn the idea that pushing harder was always the answer?

Rich Roll

Absolutely. When I was training for my first Ultraman, I pushed through injury, ego, and depletion. I thought the pain meant I was on the right path. But I burned out—physically and spiritually. My real transformation began when I learned to listen to my body instead of dominate it. That’s when I truly began to grow—not just as an athlete, but as a human being.

Brené Brown

Rich, I felt that. For years, I wore overworking as a badge of honor. But there’s a cost. You lose connection—with yourself, your family, your body. Grit without boundaries is self-betrayal. I had to learn that rest is not laziness, it’s a return to wholeness. Grit and grace must go together. Otherwise, what are we fighting for?

Krista Tippett

I see this in the spiritual seekers I speak with—those who pursue enlightenment but neglect gentleness. There’s a profound kind of compassion that says: “It’s okay not to conquer this today.” Wisdom often arrives when we soften, not when we strive. So yes—grit alone is too sharp. It needs the balm of kindness.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

From a medical perspective, I see patients chasing results through discipline—extreme diets, exhausting routines—without asking, “Why am I doing this?” That leads to adrenal fatigue, insomnia, anxiety. True health comes from sustainable rhythms—which require compassion, rest, and balance. Pushing through is sometimes necessary—but tuning in is more powerful.

Carol Dweck

There’s a common thread here: that compassion isn’t the opposite of grit—it’s its companion. So let’s dig deeper:

How do you personally balance ambition with kindness toward yourself—especially when facing setbacks or slow progress?

Krista Tippett

I’ve learned to pause and ask myself: Is this ambition coming from love or fear? When it’s fear—fear of falling behind, being irrelevant—I slow down. I let silence speak. That re-centers me. We can be ambitious and gentle at the same time. That’s the art of a meaningful life.

Rich Roll

I journal. That’s how I notice when I’m drifting into self-punishment. When I read my own words, I can spot the voice of my critic. Then I invite a new voice in—the one that says, “Keep going, but be kind.” It’s not about stopping the journey. It’s about not losing myself in the process.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

I schedule rest as part of my strategy. Compassion for me means planning to recover, not just to act. I also reframe slow progress as integration. The body needs time. The nervous system needs space. That perspective lets me strive without strain.

Brené Brown

Self-talk is everything. When I fail, my old pattern was, “You blew it.” Now I say, “Okay, that sucked. But you're still worthy.” That small shift rewires the whole experience. The science supports this too—self-compassion improves resilience. It’s not fluffy. It’s fierce.

Carol Dweck

Beautiful responses. My final question is this:

If you could teach one truth about grit and compassion to the next generation—what would it be, and how would you model it?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

I’d teach them that how you feel matters more than how you look while doing it. I’d show them that it’s okay to say “I need rest,” “I don’t know,” or “I was wrong.” I’d model that by sharing my own mistakes—openly and often.

Krista Tippett

I’d teach reverence for the quiet. Let them see that not every breakthrough is loud. I’d model reflection, stillness, and curiosity. Grit doesn’t need to be forceful—it can be patient and luminous.

Rich Roll

I’d teach through my story—that falling apart can be part of becoming whole. I’d model consistency, but not at the expense of joy. I’d show them that growth is not a war. It’s a journey with many seasons.

Brené Brown

I’d teach that bravery without softness is brittle. I’d tell young people: You are enough, even when you're behind. And I’d model that by letting them see my flaws. Not perform perfection—but practice truthful wholeness.

Carol Dweck

Thank you all. The takeaway here is profound: grit without compassion can lead to collapse. But grit infused with self-love becomes resilient, sustainable growth. We don’t have to choose between striving and softness. We grow best when we honor both.

Let’s keep evolving with gentleness as our compass.

Topic 3: Can We Truly Learn If We’re Afraid to Look Stupid?

Carol Dweck (Moderator, Opening)

One of the most common reasons people don’t grow isn’t lack of ability—it’s the fear of looking stupid. That fear kills curiosity, risk-taking, and the very practice that learning depends on. A growth mindset isn't just about effort—it’s about psychological safety.

So let’s start with this question:

Have you ever avoided doing something—just because you were afraid of looking foolish?

Dax Shepard

Oh, absolutely. I avoided therapy for years because I didn’t want to be “that guy with issues.” Joke was on me—I was that guy with so many issues. Once I started talking, I realized vulnerability isn’t weakness—it’s connection. Being afraid to look dumb is often just ego dressed up as self-protection. And I’ve worn that costume for decades.

Tim Ferriss

Same here. In my early podcast days, I didn’t want to ask “basic” questions to brilliant guests—I thought it would make me look unprepared. But the moment I stopped pretending and just asked what I truly wanted to understand, the show improved dramatically. People want real curiosity, not polished performance. Looking stupid is often the first step to getting smart.

Alex Hormozi

For me, it showed up in business. I used to avoid asking mentors “simple” questions—because I thought I had to appear like I had it all together. But success is just the result of stacking tiny, dumb questions over time. Now I lean into looking stupid. That’s the price of mastery. If you avoid humiliation, you also avoid elevation.

Adam Grant

I call this the "I-should-know-that" trap. I’ve seen brilliant students pretend they understand just to keep their status. But real intelligence is the willingness to rethink and relearn. The classroom, the boardroom, even life itself—it rewards those who risk looking wrong in order to become more right. Learning demands humility.

Carol Dweck

Exactly. So let me take it deeper:

How do you personally create spaces where you—and others—feel safe enough to learn through imperfection?

Tim Ferriss

I model it first. If I bomb an interview question or share something embarrassing, I name it. “Wow, that was awkward,” or “I have no idea what I’m doing right now.” That self-acknowledgment gives everyone else permission to relax. Vulnerability is contagious—in a good way.

Dax Shepard

On Armchair Expert, we tell our guests: You don’t need to be right. You just need to be real. That sets the tone. And I share my most flawed stories—addiction, shame, screwups—so people stop performing. It’s not therapy, but it’s therapeutic.

Alex Hormozi

In my companies, we do something weird: we reward mistakes. If someone makes a bold move and it flops, we talk about what was learned, not just what went wrong. That flips the script from punishment to progress. People stop hiding and start experimenting.

Adam Grant

In classrooms and companies, I encourage something called “challenge networks”—trusted people who’ll tell you the truth. I also ask students to write one question they’re afraid to ask. We post those anonymously, then answer them out loud. It removes shame and makes learning communal.

Carol Dweck

That’s beautiful. Here’s the final question:

If you could give the next generation one mantra or practice to help them outgrow the fear of looking stupid, what would it be?

Alex Hormozi

I’d tell them: “Confidence is earned through repetition, not reputation.” You don’t need to be smart—you need to show up enough times to become smart. Look dumb, get strong.

Dax Shepard

Mine would be: “Go first.” Say the awkward thing. Admit the dumb question. Go first, and you’ll never be last in growth.

Tim Ferriss

I’d teach journaling. Writing down what you’re afraid to try—and what you’re afraid to look like—shines a light on your false limits. Then take one small action anyway. That’s how confidence gets built in secret.

Adam Grant

I’d say: “The smartest people ask the most questions.” The earlier they learn that being curious is cooler than being right, the faster they evolve. I’d model it by asking more questions than giving answers.

Carol Dweck

Thank you. What you’ve all shared confirms this: to learn, we must be willing to be seen in our uncertainty. The growth mindset isn’t about being perfect—it’s about being present, curious, and brave enough to try again.

Let’s keep creating spaces where being “wrong” is just the first step toward being real.

Topic 4: What Happens to Growth Mindset When the World Judges Outcomes Only?

Carol Dweck (Moderator, Opening)

One of the greatest threats to a growth mindset is the overemphasis on external outcomes—grades, followers, dollars, rankings. When our value is measured only by results, we risk collapsing under pressure or avoiding challenges entirely.

But learning, innovation, and fulfillment thrive in environments where process, effort, and progress are honored—not just the scoreboard.

So let me begin with this:

Have you ever struggled to stay true to growth when the world was watching—and judging the outcome?

Simon Sinek

Yes, when Start With Why went viral, I felt boxed in. People expected me to deliver the next big idea, quickly. But the pressure to “produce results” on command nearly suffocated my curiosity. I had to remind myself that impact doesn’t always come fast or flashy. Sometimes, your biggest growth comes in private—when no one’s applauding.

Gretchen Rubin

That resonates. When The Happiness Project took off, I got addicted to feedback—reviews, rankings, reader reactions. But it started warping my voice. I was chasing validation instead of exploration. Eventually, I had to step back and ask: What’s meaningful to me—not just marketable? Growth mindset required tuning out the noise.

Andrew Huberman

As a scientist in the public eye now, I face this constantly. Social media loves simplified “hacks,” but real science is slow, often messy. I’ve had to resist the temptation to prioritize engagement over integrity. Growth in neuroscience—or life—happens through repetition and resilience, not shortcuts. I stay grounded by sticking to principles, not pressure.

Cal Newport

In academia, the publish-or-perish mindset is intense. Early in my career, I felt I had to constantly prove my worth through papers and metrics. But it drained me. That’s when I committed to deep work—not just for productivity, but for peace. I now protect my attention like it’s sacred. Outcome matters, but it shouldn’t be your identity.

Carol Dweck

There’s a clear consensus here: outcome pressure can distort growth. So let me ask:

What internal practices or boundaries help you protect your sense of purpose and learning—especially when external rewards are loud?

Cal Newport

Time-blocking changed everything. It’s not just a productivity trick—it’s how I defend my inner world. I literally schedule hours to think, reflect, and write without the expectation of immediate results. That’s where real breakthroughs happen—out of the spotlight.

Simon Sinek

For me, it’s surrounding myself with people who value integrity over intensity. I have close friends who ask: “Are you learning?” not “Are you winning?” That reorients me. I also keep a physical notebook—not a digital one—to sketch out messy ideas without algorithmic pressure.

Gretchen Rubin

I do a weekly review, but instead of asking, “What did I achieve?” I ask, “What did I notice? What did I enjoy? What did I handle with grace?” These questions celebrate growth in quieter forms. They help me appreciate the process, not just the performance.

Andrew Huberman

I rely on neuroscience here: I train my dopamine system to reward effort and progress, not just outcomes. I celebrate showing up, completing the reps, engaging with the research. That keeps me resilient. Otherwise, you start chasing spikes instead of building strength.

Carol Dweck

Such powerful reflections. Here’s my final question:

If you could help young people design a world where growth is celebrated over results, what would that look like—and what would you teach them to value?

Andrew Huberman

I’d teach them to understand their brain. Show them how learning literally changes their structure. I’d help them associate joy with struggle. We’d reward persistence—not just performance. That rewires their entire motivational system.

Gretchen Rubin

I’d create rituals for progress—like journaling about one small win per day. I’d teach them to notice consistency over flash. And I’d model it myself by sharing my behind-the-scenes—not just polished moments.

Simon Sinek

I’d redesign schools and companies around questions, not grades. I’d teach that being curious is cooler than being first. If we reward questions and collaboration, we raise builders, not just achievers.

Cal Newport

I’d eliminate the myth of multitasking. I’d teach deep focus as a superpower. I’d say, “Don’t measure your life in likes—measure it in meaningful hours.” Because growth isn’t noisy. It’s quiet, slow, and sacred.

Carol Dweck

Thank you all. What you’ve shown today is that growth mindset isn’t just about working hard—it’s about working wisely, and resisting the temptation to perform instead of progress.

Let’s keep championing environments where learning is valued even when the results aren't immediate—and where the inner scorecard matters most.

Topic 5: Who Gets Permission to Grow? (And Who Doesn’t?)

Carol Dweck (Moderator, Opening)

We often speak of growth as a personal choice, but the truth is—not everyone is given equal access to the idea that they can change. Whether it's due to background, trauma, environment, or messaging, many people grow up believing success isn’t for them.

My research on mindset has always emphasized that abilities can be developed—but that belief only takes root when people feel seen, supported, and safe to grow.

So I want to start here:

Was there ever a time when you felt you had to fight for your own right to grow?

Luvvie Ajayi Jones

Oh yes. Growing up as a Nigerian girl in America, I constantly got the message that I was “too loud,” “too confident,” “too much.” So I shrank. I edited myself. It took years to realize that my growth didn’t need approval—it needed truth. I had to claim my space before the world gave it. That’s what “professional troublemaking” is all about: making room for your own becoming.

Joe Rogan

For me, it was more subtle but still real. I was a kid from Newark who wasn’t academic—so I got pegged early on as a “physical” guy, not a “thinking” guy. Martial arts saved me. It taught me discipline, introspection, and that intelligence isn’t just book smart. Even in podcasting, I had to prove I could ask deep questions, not just crack jokes. Growth is personal—but it’s political, too.

Marie Forleo

I grew up in a working-class Italian-American family where creative careers were “nice hobbies.” I had to unlearn a lot of scarcity thinking. I didn’t see people who looked like me in entrepreneurship. So I created Everything Is Figureoutable as a message I needed. Giving yourself permission to grow sometimes means breaking family narratives, not just societal ones.

Lewis Howes

I was molested when I was young—and I didn’t speak about it for decades. That experience made me believe I was broken, unworthy, incapable of real love or success. It wasn’t until I started telling the truth—first to myself, then others—that I gave myself permission to grow. Healing became my foundation for growth. And now I try to model that for anyone who’s felt invisible.

Carol Dweck

Thank you for those powerful truths. So next, let’s ask:

How can we help others—especially those who feel left out of the success narrative—believe in their capacity to grow?

Marie Forleo

Visibility is huge. Representation matters. I try to show people: “Hey, I came from where you are. You’re not broken, you’re just early in your process.” I also use storytelling—real stories of transformation—to cut through the noise of perfection culture.

Joe Rogan

You gotta meet people where they are. That’s why I bring on such a wide range of guests. I want someone who’s working construction or driving a truck to hear a physicist and think, “Wait—I could learn that too?” Growth is about access. And access starts with relatability.

Luvvie Ajayi Jones

Normalize doubt, especially in public. I let people see me wrestle with fear, hesitation, imposter syndrome. If we all keep pretending confidence is automatic, people will assume it’s not for them. Vulnerability is not weakness—it’s a bridge.

Lewis Howes

Create safe spaces. That’s the biggest thing. I built The School of Greatness to be that kind of space—where emotion and excellence can co-exist. The world says you need to be tough to succeed. I say: be honest first. The rest will come.

Carol Dweck

Beautiful. Let’s end with this:

If you could implant one belief in every person who’s ever felt “not enough,” what would it be—and how would you live that belief out loud?

Joe Rogan

I’d say: “You’re stronger than you think—but you gotta test it.” I’d live that by continuing to put myself in hard conversations, physical challenges, mental stretches. I want people to see me fail, question, evolve—on air, unfiltered.

Marie Forleo

Mine would be: “You are wildly capable—even if you’ve never seen it done.” I’d model it by staying transparent about my missteps. Success isn’t a clean path. I want to keep making that visible.

Lewis Howes

I’d say: “You’re worthy of love even before you achieve anything.” That’s what I didn’t hear growing up. I live that by prioritizing emotional literacy. Talking openly about therapy, shame, and healing is how I prove that belief.

Luvvie Ajayi Jones

Mine would be: “You don’t need permission to grow—just a mirror that tells the truth.” I live it by being that mirror for others. Loudly. Publicly. Authentically. Even when it’s uncomfortable.

Carol Dweck

Thank you all. Today we saw that growth mindset isn’t just a personal choice—it’s also a cultural invitation. When people feel unseen or unworthy, it’s not enough to say, “You can do it.” We must also say, “We see you. You belong. You’re allowed to begin.”

Let’s all be builders of that permission.

Final Thoughts by Carol Dweck

After five conversations, one truth stands taller than the rest: mindset is not just what you believe about yourself—it's what you believe is possible for others.

We’ve seen that growth is not only a personal journey, but a shared responsibility. It’s influenced by the systems we live in, the stories we hear, and the courage we show one another.

What I hope you take from this series is that you always have the right to begin again. That failure isn’t the opposite of success—it’s part of it. That grit requires rest. That learning means daring to look foolish. And that permission to grow should never be a privilege—it should be a given.

The world doesn’t need more perfection. It needs more people willing to grow, out loud.

Let’s keep creating that world—one question, one effort, one mindset shift at a time.

Short Bios:

Carol Dweck: Psychologist and author of Mindset, Carol is best known for her groundbreaking research on fixed vs. growth mindsets and how beliefs shape success, learning, and motivation.

Jay Shetty: Former monk turned bestselling author and host of On Purpose, Jay shares wisdom on purpose, failure, and emotional growth with millions around the world.

Mel Robbins: Motivational speaker and host of The Mel Robbins Podcast, Mel is known for her practical tools like the 5 Second Rule, helping people overcome fear and hesitation.

Ed Mylett: Peak performance strategist and host of The Ed Mylett Show, Ed blends personal development with leadership coaching, emphasizing resilience and mindset mastery.

Lewis Howes: Host of The School of Greatness, Lewis uses his platform to explore trauma, healing, and human potential through personal storytelling and expert interviews.

Brené Brown: Research professor and host of Unlocking Us, Brené is a leading voice on vulnerability, courage, and belonging, with bestselling books including Daring Greatly.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee: Physician and host of Feel Better, Live More, Rangan shares accessible wellness advice that integrates mind, body, and lifestyle for sustainable growth.

Rich Roll: Ultra-endurance athlete and host of The Rich Roll Podcast, Rich offers deep, long-form conversations on transformation, purpose, and the power of endurance.

Krista Tippett: Creator of On Being, Krista brings a contemplative lens to modern life, engaging spiritual, philosophical, and scientific voices around meaning and growth.

Adam Grant: Organizational psychologist and host of Re:Thinking, Adam writes and speaks about rethinking assumptions, psychological safety, and the value of intellectual humility.

Tim Ferriss: Author of The 4-Hour Workweek and host of The Tim Ferriss Show, Tim explores experiments in mindset, high performance, and unconventional learning.

Dax Shepard: Actor and host of Armchair Expert, Dax uses humor and honesty to dive into imperfection, addiction, and the messy beauty of being human.

Alex Hormozi: Entrepreneur and host of The Game, Alex shares blunt, tactical insights on business growth, discipline, and embracing discomfort for long-term success.

Simon Sinek: Author of Start With Why and host of A Bit of Optimism, Simon inspires leaders and teams to build purpose-driven, trust-based cultures.

Cal Newport: Author of Deep Work and host of Deep Questions, Cal advocates for focus, intention, and a deeper approach to work in an age of distraction.

Andrew Huberman: Neuroscientist and host of Huberman Lab, Andrew shares cutting-edge research on the brain, motivation, and performance in a clear, actionable way.

Gretchen Rubin: Author of The Happiness Project and host of Happier, Gretchen explores habits, personality, and the small daily shifts that lead to lasting well-being.

Joe Rogan: Comedian and host of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe brings a wide range of voices to public conversation, often questioning societal norms and personal growth narratives.

Marie Forleo: Author of Everything is Figureoutable and host of The Marie Forleo Podcast, Marie empowers entrepreneurs and creatives to take bold, compassionate action.

Luvvie Ajayi Jones: Writer and host of Professional Troublemaker, Luvvie challenges fear and speaks truth with wit and courage, uplifting marginalized voices.