|
Getting your Trinity Audio player ready...
|
Deepak Chopra:
Welcome, dear friends—visionaries, seekers, and lovers of truth.
Today, we gather not merely across time, but across dimensions of belief. Imagine a sacred circle where ancient saints sit beside modern mystics… where pastors and prophets, scientists and spiritual teachers all share a common desire: to understand the heart of Jesus and the deeper meaning of his message.
In this special series of conversations, we will explore five great questions:
What was Jesus’ primary mission?
How should we understand the Cross?
How do we attain salvation?
What is the nature of sin and human beings?
What does resurrection really mean?
These are not questions of doctrine alone—they are questions of soul, of consciousness, and of the mystery that lives within each of us.
You will hear from voices who say: “Jesus died for our sins.”
And others who say: “Jesus came to awaken us to our divine nature.”
Both speak from love. Both are searching for the divine thread that connects heaven and earth.
I ask only this: Listen with your heart. Let go of the need to be right. And allow something beautiful to emerge—something beyond belief… perhaps even beyond words.
This is not a debate. It is a communion of perspectives.
And with that, let us begin…
(Note: This is an imaginary conversation, a creative exploration of an idea, and not a real speech or event.)
What Was Jesus’ Primary Mission?
Moderator: Deepak Chopra
Location: A peaceful sunlit garden, timeless and without borders. The conversation flows gently like the breeze around them.
Deepak Chopra:
Welcome, dear friends, to a sacred circle of inquiry. Today, we gather not to debate, but to deepen our understanding of Jesus—his mission, his essence, and his invitation to humanity. Was his purpose rooted in sacrifice for our sins… or in awakening us to the divine within? Let’s explore.
Let us begin with our friends who believe Jesus’ primary mission was to die for our sins.
Billy Graham:
Thank you, Deepak. I preached for decades that the heart of the Gospel is simple: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.”
Jesus came to bear the weight of our sins so we could be reconciled to God. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission. That was his mission—to redeem mankind.
T.D. Jakes:
Absolutely, Brother Graham. And let me add this: Jesus wasn’t just a teacher; he was a bridge. Through the cross, he closed the gap between holiness and humanity. He bore our iniquities, not just symbolically, but literally. That’s why the resurrection had power—it confirmed the debt was paid.
Anselm of Canterbury:
In my formulation, God’s justice was offended by human sin. But in His mercy, He sent His own Son—divine and sinless—to satisfy that justice. Jesus’ death was not accidental. It was the reason he came into the world: to offer satisfaction that we ourselves could never give.
Deepak Chopra (nodding):
Thank you, each of you, for anchoring the classic view. Now let’s hear from those who see Jesus’ mission through the lens of awakening and transformation.
Richard Rohr:
Thank you, Deepak. What I’ve come to believe is that Jesus didn’t come to change God’s mind about us—He came to change our minds about God. His life, his love, his radical forgiveness—those were the main events. The cross is powerful, yes, but not because God needed payment. It’s powerful because it exposes the illusion of separation and invites us into union.
Meister Eckhart:
Ah, union. That is the eternal truth. The Word became flesh not to die as ransom, but to reveal the God within. The Kingdom of Heaven is not “up there”—it is here, within the soul. Jesus’ mission was to awaken this divine birth in each of us.
Dolores Cannon:
And from what I’ve uncovered through thousands of regressions—Jesus came from a higher vibrational realm, far beyond this Earth. He incarnated to teach love, peace, and the power we hold as souls. The crucifixion was something humanity imposed on him, not his mission. His goal was consciousness elevation, not blood sacrifice.
Deepak Chopra (softly smiling):
We are hearing two different frequencies of truth—one of justice and atonement, another of awakening and unity. Let me invite us into a deeper question: Could both be true, from different dimensions of understanding?
Perhaps what we call “atonement” is not a transaction—but an inner at-one-ment.
What do you all make of that?
T.D. Jakes:
Interesting phrasing, Deepak. I do believe that when people receive the sacrifice, something changes internally. So maybe… the external act opens the door to an internal transformation.
Richard Rohr:
Yes, and that’s the space where both camps can meet. If we see the crucifixion not as a requirement—but as a revelation of how God enters human suffering to transfigure it—that’s a bridge between atonement and awakening.
Dolores Cannon:
Exactly. It’s not either/or. Humanity needed a symbol, a catalyst. Jesus became that. But let us not stop at the symbol—we must ascend into the truth it points to: that we are divine beings on a journey home.
Billy Graham:
I’m moved by the sincerity here. And while I stand firm on the saving power of the cross, I agree—there must be transformation. It’s not just about belief—it’s about being reborn in love.
Deepak Chopra (concluding):
Perhaps in this garden of perspectives, we’ve touched a higher harmony. Jesus may have walked many paths within one life—sacrifice, teaching, healing, awakening. Maybe his mission was not one-dimensional, but multi-dimensional.
Let this conversation continue in your hearts. For as Jesus said, “The Kingdom of God is within you.”
How Should We Understand the Cross?
Moderator: Deepak Chopra
Setting: A serene circular hall made of light and marble, open to the sky. Each speaker is seated in a circle, surrounded by a soft golden aura.
Deepak Chopra:
Welcome again, dear friends of spirit and thought. Today, we ask a sacred question that echoes through history: What is the true meaning of the Cross? Was it a cosmic transaction to satisfy divine justice? Or a universal symbol meant to awaken our hearts to compassion and transformation?
Let’s first hear from those who view the Cross as the redemptive core of salvation history.
Pro-Atonement Speakers:
John Piper:
The Cross is not metaphor—it’s the heart of the Gospel. God’s holiness demanded justice, and Jesus absorbed the wrath that was meant for us. It was a real payment. Without that payment, grace loses its meaning. The cross satisfies justice and love.
Greg Laurie:
Amen to that. When Jesus cried, “It is finished,” he wasn’t speaking in poetry—he meant the debt was paid. The cross is where sin met its match. It’s not just a teaching tool—it’s the victory of God’s mercy over our guilt.
Martin Luther:
I struggled with guilt until I saw the truth: the just shall live by faith. The Cross set me free from fear. Christ’s death wasn’t merely symbolic—it crushed the weight of law, sin, and death. It was the ultimate act of divine justice satisfied in love.
Deepak Chopra (bowing gently):
Thank you. These are powerful affirmations of divine justice wrapped in grace. Now, let us shift lenses and hear from those who see the Cross not as payment, but as transformation.
Transformational Speakers:
Deepak Chopra:
Barbara, perhaps you could begin.
Barbara Marx Hubbard:
Of course. I believe the Cross is an evolutionary moment—a symbol of the end of the old self and the birth of the universal human. Jesus demonstrated how to transcend fear, violence, and death—not to pay a debt, but to initiate a new consciousness in humanity.
Abelard:
I argued long ago that God did not need blood. God needed to awaken love. The Cross, in my view, was the ultimate moral influence. Seeing that kind of love compels our hearts to change. That’s the power—not fear, but compassion awakened.
Deepak Chopra (to himself):
Compassion as revolution…
Deepak Chopra:
Deepak here again. I see the Cross as a symbol across dimensions. It represents the intersection of spirit and matter, time and eternity, self and Self. It was not about appeasement—it was about transcendence. The crucifixion is a metaphor for the ego’s death and the soul’s resurrection.
Greg Laurie (responding gently):
But Deepak, if it’s all metaphor, how do we deal with guilt, sin, and injustice? Aren’t people lost without a real anchor of forgiveness?
Dolores Cannon (emerging from the circle):
From the higher realms, we’ve learned that forgiveness comes not from external sacrifices, but from awareness. Jesus did not need to die—it was what humans chose for him. He allowed it out of compassion, knowing it would be a wake-up call. But the real teaching was love, not punishment.
Martin Luther (firmly):
Yet the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. If we minimize sin, we dilute the Cross.
Richard Rohr (joining in gently):
And yet, Martin, perhaps we misunderstood fear. Jesus showed us how to absorb evil without retaliation. The Cross is what happens when perfect love confronts broken systems. He didn’t die to change God’s mind about us—but to change our minds about what love really looks like.
Deepak Chopra (softly concluding):
Maybe the Cross is not either/or—but both/and. It is pain and possibility. Death and rebirth. Payment and invitation. It holds the paradox: that in the greatest suffering, we may find the deepest awakening.
Thank you, everyone. Let’s allow this symbol to breathe again in our hearts—free of dogma, yet full of mystery.
How Do We Attain Salvation?
Moderator: Deepak Chopra
Setting: A tranquil lakeside amphitheater at dawn. The waters reflect every speaker's words with calm clarity.
Deepak Chopra:
Welcome once more, dear seekers. Today, we pose the question: How do we attain salvation? Is it a matter of belief in the atoning death of Christ? Or is salvation the result of awakening to the truth that we are already divine?
Let’s begin with those who teach that salvation is through faith in Christ’s sacrifice.
Pro-Atonement Speakers:
Joel Osteen:
Thank you, Deepak. I believe salvation is a free gift. We are saved when we say yes to Jesus—when we accept that He died for us and rose again. It’s not about what we do—it’s about what He already did. That’s the Good News.
Charles Stanley:
Absolutely. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works. We are sinners by nature, and nothing we do can earn our way to heaven. Jesus paid the price. Our role is to trust Him completely—to place our eternal destiny in His hands.
Augustine (with quiet conviction):
When Adam fell, all of humanity fell. Our wills became corrupted. Only the grace of God, administered through Christ’s death, can restore us. Salvation begins with God, not man. Without the shedding of blood, there is no redemption.
Deepak Chopra (gently shifting):
Thank you, gentlemen. Now, let us open the space to voices who see salvation not as rescue from sin, but as realization of the divine already within.
Transformational Speakers:
Dolores Cannon:
From thousands of hypnotic regressions, I’ve seen the same theme repeated: we are souls on a journey of learning. Salvation is not about being rescued—it’s about remembering. Jesus came to show us our own power, not to save us from punishment. The idea of "original sin" is a misunderstanding of the soul’s evolution.
Thomas Merton:
Yes. Salvation is awakening from the illusion of separation. It’s not about escaping hell—it’s about entering into communion with the divine here and now. Christ’s role is to show us how to become who we already are—God’s beloved.
Michael Beckwith:
I see salvation as vibrational alignment. When we live in fear, we forget who we are. When we align with love, gratitude, and truth, we enter what Jesus called the Kingdom of Heaven. It’s not a future reward—it’s a present state of consciousness.
Joel Osteen (responding kindly):
I hear that, and I agree there’s transformation involved. But I’d say it begins with believing in Jesus. Awakening is beautiful—but we need that first step of surrender. That’s where grace meets us.
Dolores Cannon:
But surrender to what? Jesus didn’t want worship—he wanted emulation. He said we could do greater things. Salvation, to him, was showing the path to higher consciousness.
Augustine:
And yet, without divine grace, that path remains blocked. Human pride seeks its own enlightenment. Salvation is the gift that humbles us. Christ didn’t come to awaken our ego—he came to free us from it.
Richard Rohr (stepping in softly):
Friends, perhaps both are needed. The outer surrender of faith, and the inner journey of awakening. Jesus speaks in paradox: “The last shall be first. He who loses his life will find it.” Maybe salvation is both a decision and a discovery.
Deepak Chopra (smiling):
Yes, Richard. A decision... and a discovery. A leap of faith... and a shift in awareness.
Let us leave this conversation with a koan in the heart: Is salvation a return to God—or a remembrance that we never left?
What Is the Nature of Sin and Human Beings?
Moderator: Deepak Chopra
Setting: A candle-lit temple, where the flickering light casts long shadows. The air is filled with the sense of timeless inquiry, as each speaker sits in deep contemplation.
Deepak Chopra:
Welcome once again to this sacred space. Today, we dive into a question that has long troubled the hearts of seekers and philosophers: What is the nature of sin? Are we born sinful, in need of redemption and forgiveness? Or are we inherently divine, in need of awakening to our true nature?
Let’s begin with those who see sin as an inherent flaw in humanity, requiring divine intervention.
Pro-Atonement Speakers:
Francis Chan:
Thank you, Deepak. We are all born with a sinful nature. The Bible says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” We don’t naturally seek God. We need Jesus to cleanse us from sin. It’s not about being a "good person"—it’s about recognizing that we can never be good enough without Christ’s sacrifice.
R.C. Sproul:
Exactly. Sin isn’t just a mistake—it’s rebellion. We rebel against God’s law and nature. And that rebellion deserves divine punishment. That’s why the Cross is so important. It’s not just a symbolic gesture; it’s the only means of reconciling a holy God with sinful humanity.
Jonathan Edwards:
Sin is man’s natural state. We are fallen creatures, incapable of rising to God’s holiness without divine grace. The wrath of God burns against sin, and it’s only through Christ that we can be reconciled.
Deepak Chopra (nodding thoughtfully):
Thank you, gentlemen. Now, let’s turn to voices who see sin not as inherent evil, but as an illusion born of forgetfulness and separation from the divine.
Transformational Speakers:
Neville Goddard:
Sin, as I see it, is simply the denial of our true divine nature. We are not born sinners—we are born as God’s image, but we forget this truth. Our thoughts and beliefs create the illusion of separation, which we call sin. When we awaken to our true identity, we shed this illusion.
James Finley:
Exactly. Sin is not a moral failure; it’s a spiritual amnesia. We forget that we are the beloved, that we are one with God. The practice of contemplation, of silence, allows us to awaken to this deeper truth and let go of the false narratives of guilt and separation.
Byron Katie:
Yes, and I’d add that sin is a misunderstanding of the self. When we believe we are separate, we believe we are wrong, unworthy, or bad. The truth is that we are all just consciousness in human form. To believe we are “sinners” is to accept a false story about ourselves. The work is to question that story and return to love.
Deepak Chopra (with a soft smile):
So, what I hear is that sin is a misunderstanding, a false identification with the ego. This would mean that the more we awaken, the less we perceive sin as something external or intrinsic, but rather as something that dissolves when we remember who we truly are.
Francis Chan (responding earnestly):
But Deepak, if sin is just a misunderstanding, then what about the reality of suffering? What about the pain of human disobedience to God? Doesn’t that need to be dealt with?
Neville Goddard:
I’m not saying that suffering isn’t real, Francis. But I believe it is a result of the collective belief in separation. Once we realize that we are all one with God, the suffering diminishes—not because we ignore it, but because we understand it from a higher perspective.
Jonathan Edwards (sincerely):
But how do we address the fact that people do cause harm, Deepak? There must be accountability. Sin has consequences, not just spiritual but tangible. How can we reconcile that with an idea that we are all divine?
Byron Katie (gently):
Accountability doesn’t need to involve punishment, Jonathan. It can involve awareness—seeing clearly the effects of our actions. Once we are awake, we act from a place of love, not guilt. We still face the consequences, but we do so with clarity and compassion.
Deepak Chopra:
Indeed, perhaps the real question is: What happens when we remember our true essence? Does sin still have the same hold on us? Or does it dissolve as we awaken to love, compassion, and unity?
James Finley (softly):
When we awaken, we transcend sin, not by ignoring it, but by seeing beyond it. We no longer view ourselves or others as broken. Instead, we see the divine unfolding in every moment, in every being.
Deepak Chopra (smiling):
Beautifully said. It seems we’ve arrived at the heart of the conversation. Maybe sin is not so much a stain, but an opportunity—a call to awaken to the truth of who we are and to live from that divine essence.
What Does Resurrection Really Mean?
Moderator: Deepak Chopra
Setting: A mountaintop at sunrise, surrounded by clouds. The sacred conversation unfolds under a golden sky where earthly and divine voices meet.
Deepak Chopra:
Welcome again, beloved voices of insight. Today, we explore the mystery of resurrection. Was it a supernatural event proving divine victory over death and sin—or a symbol of the eternal process of transformation and rebirth in every soul?
Let’s first hear from those who affirm the resurrection as a literal and essential part of Christian faith.
Pro-Atonement Speakers:
Andy Stanley:
Thank you, Deepak. I’ll be direct: Christianity rises and falls on the resurrection. Jesus physically rose from the dead—this isn’t metaphor. If the tomb wasn’t empty, there’s no Gospel. His resurrection proves He is who He claimed to be: the Son of God who defeated death.
N.T. Wright:
And to add historical weight: the resurrection is not just a theological statement—it is grounded in real events. The early church didn’t invent it. They experienced it. The bodily resurrection of Jesus affirmed that God’s new creation had already begun—right in the middle of history.
C.S. Lewis:
I often said, “Myth became fact.” The resurrection, to me, is the ultimate myth that is also true. It fulfills our deepest longings for life beyond death, not as fantasy, but as reality. It tells us that death is not the end, but a door.
Deepak Chopra (gently):
Thank you. These are strong affirmations of the resurrection as both fact and cosmic proof. Now, let’s hear from those who see resurrection as a symbol of something universal within each of us.
Transformational Speakers:
Dolores Cannon:
In my sessions with thousands of souls, what came through consistently was this: Jesus’ resurrection was a demonstration of what all humans are capable of—ascending beyond the physical, returning to higher realms. It wasn’t about proving divinity—it was about showing the path of vibrational evolution.
Paul Tillich:
Resurrection is not a miracle in time—it is a symbol of transcendence over despair. It is the courage to be. It happens in every person who chooses life over fear, meaning over nothingness.
Brian McLaren:
And in our world today, resurrection must mean more than one man rising. It must mean the rising of humanity—out of hate, fear, and domination systems. Jesus came to liberate, and resurrection is the sign that love, not violence, has the last word.
N.T. Wright (responding kindly):
But if it’s only symbolic, doesn’t it lose its power? The early Christians went to their deaths claiming something happened. Not an idea—a person rose.
Dolores Cannon:
And I don’t dispute that something happened. I’m saying it was multidimensional. Jesus may have resurrected, but not to prove theology. He came back to show us what awaits when we transcend fear, ego, and attachment to matter.
C.S. Lewis (thoughtfully):
Perhaps resurrection is like Aslan’s return—not only for proof, but for hope. Whether literal or mystical, what matters most is that it breaks the final chain—our fear of death.
Richard Rohr (joining in):
Yes, and I’d say resurrection is the pattern of reality. Every death contains a seed. Jesus didn’t come to change the world once—he came to reveal the pattern of transformation that exists in all of us, all the time.
Deepak Chopra:
So whether we see it as literal, symbolic, or multidimensional—the resurrection whispers of a deeper truth: that love is stronger than death, and consciousness cannot be confined to the tomb.
Let us leave this sacred conversation not with conclusion, but with curiosity. May each of us ask—not only, “Did He rise?”—but also, “Have I?”
Epilogue: The Living Christ Within
Deepak Chopra:
As our journey across these five sacred topics draws to a pause—not an end—I find myself reflecting on what has truly emerged through our conversations.
We spoke of Christ’s mission—some say it was sacrifice, others say it was awakening. Perhaps it was both: a divine mirror showing humanity both its shadows and its light.
We explored the Cross—as a payment to restore cosmic balance, and as a symbol of love’s triumph over fear. In both views, the Cross is transformation—whether by justice or by surrender.
We asked what it means to be saved. Some believe salvation is granted through faith in a Savior; others see it as an inner remembering of the divine spark. And yet, all seemed to agree: true salvation is not fear of hell, but the embrace of love.
When we pondered sin, we saw it defined as rebellion, as blindness, and as amnesia. And through these perspectives, we realized that the human story is not one of damnation—but of return. Return to wholeness. Return to grace.
And finally, in contemplating the resurrection, we faced the mystery together: is it a historical miracle, or a metaphor for what we’re all called to do—rise? Perhaps Jesus rose not to prove himself, but to invite us to rise with him.
Across all perspectives, I sensed something deeper than agreement: a sacred echo. Whether in literal faith or spiritual metaphor, the Christ within each person is calling—not for uniform belief, but for awakened love.
So I leave you with a question, not an answer:
What is the resurrection you are being invited into now?
May it be one of compassion.
May it be one of unity.
May it be one of peace.
Thank you, beloved souls. The conversation lives on—in your choices, in your consciousness, and in the quiet spaces where eternity whispers.
Short Bios:
Abelard
A 12th-century French theologian who proposed the “Moral Influence Theory” of atonement, emphasizing Christ’s life and death as a demonstration of divine love meant to transform the human heart.
Andy Stanley
Modern evangelical pastor and founder of North Point Ministries, known for his practical, Bible-based teachings and emphasis on the resurrection as the foundation of Christian faith.
Anselm of Canterbury
Medieval archbishop and philosopher who developed the Satisfaction Theory of Atonement, arguing that Jesus died to restore God’s honor offended by human sin.
Augustine
One of Christianity’s most influential theologians. He taught original sin and the necessity of divine grace through Christ’s death for human salvation.
Barbara Marx Hubbard
Futurist and spiritual thinker who viewed Christ’s life and resurrection as symbols of humanity’s evolutionary leap toward higher consciousness.
Billy Graham
Legendary evangelist who preached worldwide for decades, declaring that faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection is the only way to salvation.
Brian McLaren
Progressive Christian author and speaker who views Jesus’ life and resurrection as catalysts for social transformation and liberation from fear.
Byron Katie
Spiritual teacher known for “The Work,” a method of inquiry into thoughts and beliefs. She teaches that sin is misunderstanding, not inherent guilt.
Charles Stanley
Late Southern Baptist pastor who emphasized eternal security and salvation through faith alone in Jesus’ sacrificial death.
C.S. Lewis
Beloved Christian apologist and author who portrayed atonement through mythic storytelling, emphasizing God’s love and the mystery of resurrection.
Deepak Chopra
(Moderator)
Spiritual teacher and author integrating science, metaphysics, and mysticism. Sees Jesus as a symbol of inner awakening and multidimensional being.
Dolores Cannon
Pioneer of past-life regression and metaphysical exploration. She viewed Jesus as a higher-dimensional soul who came to elevate human consciousness.
Francis Chan
Contemporary evangelical pastor known for his passionate preaching on holiness, repentance, and the seriousness of sin and salvation.
Greg Laurie
Modern evangelical pastor and evangelist who emphasizes salvation through faith in Jesus' death and resurrection.
James Finley
Contemplative teacher and former monk, influenced by Thomas Merton. He sees sin as forgetfulness of divine union rather than moral failure.
Jonathan Edwards
18th-century preacher famous for “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” He taught that sin incurs God’s wrath and salvation is by grace alone.
Martin Luther
Founder of the Protestant Reformation. Believed Jesus’ death satisfied divine justice, freeing believers from the condemnation of the law.
Meister Eckhart
Medieval Christian mystic and theologian. He taught that God lives within every soul and that the divine birth happens in the heart.
Michael Beckwith
Founder of Agape International Spiritual Center. Teaches that salvation is aligning with divine presence, not escaping judgment.
Neville Goddard
Mystic and teacher who emphasized imagination as divine power. Believed everyone is God in expression, and sin is forgetting this truth.
N.T. Wright
Biblical scholar and theologian who defends the historical resurrection and interprets it as God’s new creation breaking into the world.
Paul Tillich
Philosopher-theologian who redefined faith as “ultimate concern.” Viewed resurrection as symbolic of existential renewal and courage.
R.C. Sproul
Reformed theologian known for emphasizing God’s holiness, sin’s seriousness, and the necessity of penal substitutionary atonement.
Richard Rohr
Franciscan priest and author who teaches that Christ’s death was not about appeasing God but about revealing divine love in suffering.
Thomas Merton
20th-century Trappist monk and mystic. Wrote extensively about contemplation, spiritual identity, and unity with God beyond doctrines.
T.D. Jakes
Popular bishop and speaker who preaches Christ as redeemer, focusing on inner healing through the blood and resurrection power of Jesus.
Leave a Reply