Getting your Trinity Audio player ready...
|
For centuries, we’ve been told a story about Jesus—a story of sacrifice, of a man who died on the cross to save us. But what if I told you... they lied? What if the truth about Jesus has been hidden from us, kept under wraps for millennia? Tonight, we’re pulling back the veil on one of the greatest mysteries of all time. They lied about Jesus, and here’s the truth: the crucifixion, as we’ve been taught, was an illusion.
My guests tonight—RJ Spina, who says Jesus was not a victim, but a master of metaphysical powers, Tsuruhiko Kiuchi, who had near-death experiences revealing that it wasn’t Jesus on that cross, and thinkers like Ken Wilber, Eckhart Tolle, and Sadhguru—are here to expose the hidden truth.
We’re not just questioning history tonight. We’re asking the most profound questions of our time: What is reality? What is truth? And who are we, really? What if you have the same divine power that Jesus did, and what if that has been hidden from you for centuries?
Get ready, because tonight, we’re breaking down the lies and discovering the truth about Jesus, about spirituality, and about your own divine potential. This is a conversation you don’t want to miss1
Jesus's True Identity and Missing Years
RJ Spina: We all know that traditional Christianity leaves a massive gap in Jesus’s life—his missing years between the ages of 12 and 30. What’s fascinating to me is how little attention is paid to this in mainstream religious teachings. My own experiences lead me to believe that during this time, Jesus, or Yeshua as he was truly called, traveled to places like Egypt and India to study metaphysics, healing, and higher consciousness. He wasn’t just a passive figure; he was mastering the spiritual techniques we now call Reiki and other healing arts.
Graham Hancock: That theory aligns with much of my research into alternative histories. It’s quite possible that ancient knowledge, which could include metaphysical practices like those Jesus may have studied, was far more widespread than we’ve been led to believe. Ancient Egypt, for example, was a hub of spiritual and esoteric knowledge. If Jesus went there, as you suggest, it could explain the origins of his advanced spiritual abilities. And there’s evidence in India too that links him to their ancient spiritual traditions.
Bart Ehrman: Hold on a second. While these ideas are fascinating, the historical evidence for Jesus traveling to these places is extremely weak. The Gospels, which were written decades after his death, don’t mention any of this. From a purely historical perspective, we have to be cautious about filling in these gaps with speculation, especially without textual support. The Jesus we know from the Gospels is rooted in his Jewish upbringing in Galilee, not in Eastern mysticism.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: I understand your skepticism, Bart, but my own near-death experiences gave me a different perspective. I saw that Jesus didn’t die on the cross. His brother, not he, was crucified in his place, allowing Jesus to escape and continue his spiritual journey. From what I experienced, Jesus later traveled to Japan, where he lived out the rest of his life as a teacher and master of divine knowledge. I even saw him as a revered figure in Eastern traditions, far from the narratives commonly accepted in the West.
Paramahansa Yogananda (via writings): In Autobiography of a Yogi, I wrote that the connection between Jesus and India is not a theory but a fact known to advanced spiritual masters. His teachings are rooted in the same universal truths that are found in ancient Indian scriptures. Jesus was undoubtedly a great yogi, and the idea that he traveled to India is consistent with his teachings of unity, love, and divine realization.
RJ Spina: Exactly! Yogananda’s teachings highlight what I’ve come to know through my own direct experience. Jesus was far more than what the Bible tells us. His years studying in Egypt and India helped him achieve mastery of the metaphysical arts, and his return to Judea was not the end but a continuation of his spiritual mission. He wasn’t simply a religious figure; he was a spiritual master who transcended borders and traditions.
Graham Hancock: And this crossover of spiritual traditions could explain why we see similar esoteric wisdom in ancient civilizations across the world, from Egypt to India and beyond. These teachings didn’t arise in isolation. Jesus, if he did travel, would have been part of that vast exchange of spiritual knowledge.
Bart Ehrman: But again, where’s the historical evidence for all of this? We’re moving into the realm of myth and speculation. The historical figure of Jesus, as depicted in the Gospels, was deeply rooted in first-century Judaism. There’s no textual support for him having any connection to Eastern traditions or for these metaphysical practices.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: Historical texts are limited in what they can convey, Bart. My experiences in the afterlife showed me that many aspects of reality are beyond what can be captured in books. Jesus’s life—his true life—was far more than what is written. He escaped the crucifixion, lived in Japan, and continued teaching divine knowledge far beyond what traditional historians can understand.
RJ Spina: Exactly. The missing years of Jesus, as I see them, weren’t spent in obscurity but in the pursuit of deeper spiritual mastery, learning the metaphysical principles that enabled him to perform the miracles we hear about. His journey through Egypt, India, and possibly other places like Japan, as Tsuruhiko suggests, shows that he was always a seeker of universal truth.
Graham Hancock: It’s fascinating to think that a figure like Jesus could be a global spiritual bridge, linking ancient civilizations and their wisdom traditions. There’s so much more to explore in these gaps between the lines of history.
Metaphysical Mastery and Spiritual Training
RJ Spina: One of the most critical aspects of Jesus’s life that’s often overlooked is his spiritual training. During his missing years, I believe he traveled to Egypt and India, studying advanced metaphysical practices. He learned how to heal, manipulate energy, and transcend the physical limitations of the body. These abilities were not miracles in the traditional sense, but the result of mastery over metaphysical principles.
Dr. Deepak Chopra: That resonates with much of what I teach about the connection between consciousness and healing. Jesus’s healing abilities could very well be understood as the application of deep spiritual awareness. When you understand that the body and mind are connected to a universal field of energy, it becomes clear that healing can be a direct expression of accessing that higher consciousness.
Gregg Braden: Absolutely, Deepak. I’ve spent years researching ancient civilizations and their spiritual practices, and what RJ is describing fits into what we know about the deep spiritual traditions in Egypt and India. The metaphysical training Jesus received would align with practices we now call energy work or quantum healing. These ancient cultures had knowledge that transcended what we understand as science today, and Jesus was likely tapping into that.
Dr. Joe Dispenza: I agree with both of you. From my research on neuroplasticity and healing through consciousness, I’ve found that when we can change the energy fields of the body, we can heal ourselves. If Jesus was practicing these principles, it’s likely that he was a master of the mind-body connection, able to heal not just himself but others by shifting energy at a quantum level.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: I’ve also seen through my near-death experiences that these abilities are real. When I crossed over into other dimensions, I could see how spiritual masters manipulate energy to heal and change reality. Jesus, I believe, was not simply a religious figure—he was a master of this metaphysical knowledge, able to influence the physical world through spiritual power.
RJ Spina: Yes, exactly. It’s not about "miracles" as we traditionally understand them, but about mastery over metaphysical principles. Jesus understood the laws of energy and healing at a level that allowed him to transcend normal human limitations. This is why I believe his years in places like Egypt and India were essential to his development. He wasn’t just born with these abilities; he trained, studied, and evolved.
Dr. Deepak Chopra: That’s a powerful point, RJ. Spiritual evolution is a journey, and Jesus may have undertaken this journey just like any other seeker of truth. The practices we see in ancient India and Egypt, such as meditation, energy healing, and consciousness expansion, were likely part of his path to enlightenment.
Gregg Braden: And those traditions still exist today, passed down through various lineages. The wisdom Jesus tapped into is still accessible. It’s part of the human heritage, connecting us all through the same universal consciousness.
Dr. Joe Dispenza: This brings us back to the idea that anyone can access this potential. Jesus’s message may have been about showing humanity that we all have the capacity to heal, to transcend, and to connect with higher states of consciousness. Through meditation, focused intention, and understanding the energy fields within us, we can achieve what he did.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: Exactly. In my experiences, I saw that reality itself is fluid, and once you understand the metaphysical laws governing it, you can influence it. Jesus’s healing abilities were simply his understanding of these laws in practice.
RJ Spina: That’s what makes his story so powerful. His journey is an example of what is possible for all of us when we commit to mastering the metaphysical. Jesus wasn’t unique in his potential—he simply realized the truth of his divine nature, something we are all capable of.
Reincarnation and Higher Consciousness
RJ Spina: One of the most transformative realizations I’ve had through my spiritual journey is the reality of reincarnation and how souls evolve over multiple lifetimes. Jesus himself was an advanced soul, who had incarnated multiple times before achieving mastery in his life as Yeshua. This higher consciousness transcends our earthly limitations, and the connections between souls, like soulmates or twin flames, are just different aspects of the same higher self.
Dr. Brian Weiss: That aligns with the work I’ve done through past-life regression therapy. In my sessions, I’ve encountered many individuals who have relived their past lives and accessed knowledge of their soul’s journey. What you describe about Jesus being an evolved soul fits with what I’ve seen in many cases—souls go through various incarnations to learn, grow, and ultimately reach enlightenment. The higher self guides these experiences.
Dolores Cannon (via writings): In my work with hypnosis and past-life regressions, I often discovered that people are connected to the same soul group across many lifetimes. They come back together to work through unresolved issues or to support each other’s spiritual growth. Jesus, as you mention, RJ, wasn’t just an isolated figure—he was part of a larger spiritual plan that involved many highly evolved beings, like Mary Magdalene, who were also on their own journeys of spiritual mastery.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: During my near-death experiences, I saw the cycle of reincarnation firsthand. I witnessed how souls move between lives, evolving and growing as they accumulate experiences. Jesus didn’t simply live one life; his existence continued across many dimensions, and his role was much larger than what we traditionally understand. I also encountered beings who confirmed that higher consciousness is the source of all creation, and we’re all connected to it.
Dr. Ian Stevenson (via research): My research into reincarnation focused on gathering empirical evidence of children who remembered their past lives. While I did not delve deeply into religious figures like Jesus, my findings consistently support the idea that reincarnation is real. Children provided verifiable details of past lives, suggesting that our consciousness persists beyond death. This aligns with the notion that advanced souls, like Jesus, would reincarnate across multiple lifetimes to continue their spiritual missions.
RJ Spina: Exactly. And when we talk about soulmates or twin flames, as Dolores explored in her work, it’s really about different aspects of the same higher self incarnating at the same time. Jesus and Mary Magdalene, for example, were soulmates—two projections from the same higher consciousness, working together to fulfill their divine missions. This is something that we all experience at different levels, whether we’re aware of it or not.
Dr. Brian Weiss: That’s an important point, RJ. In my past-life regression work, I’ve seen countless examples of people encountering loved ones in multiple lifetimes. It’s not just about romantic relationships either—soulmates can take on many roles across different lives. The important thing is that these relationships help us evolve and learn more about the divine nature of existence.
Dolores Cannon (via writings): And when we look at the larger picture of reincarnation, we see that these experiences are part of a much bigger plan. Every lifetime, every relationship, is designed to help us reach higher states of consciousness. Jesus’s life was just one part of his journey toward mastering the divine within himself, and his teachings were meant to show us that we can all achieve this same mastery.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: Through my experiences, I’ve realized that life and death are part of an eternal cycle. Jesus, like all of us, was simply moving through this cycle at a higher level of awareness. His understanding of reincarnation and higher consciousness allowed him to transcend the limitations of earthly existence.
RJ Spina: And that’s the key, isn’t it? The idea that we’re not just human beings living one life but are souls on a much larger journey. Jesus showed us what’s possible when we embrace that higher consciousness. We can all reach that level of awareness if we’re willing to look beyond the physical world and tap into the divine nature of our souls.
Illusion and Manipulation of Reality
RJ Spina: One of the most profound aspects of Jesus's story is that the crucifixion was not what we think. It was, in fact, an illusion, created by Jesus and his disciples. Using advanced spiritual techniques, they manipulated reality and the collective expectations of the people to create the appearance of a crucifixion. This mastery over reality is something that few understand, but it's central to the teachings of spiritual masters.
David Icke: That concept of reality being manipulated fits perfectly with my research. I’ve long argued that what we perceive as reality is, in fact, a projection controlled by unseen forces, whether they be spiritual, extraterrestrial, or human elites. The idea that Jesus and his disciples could create an illusion like the crucifixion is an example of how reality is not fixed—it can be altered by those who understand the deeper mechanics of it.
Michael Talbot (via writings): In The Holographic Universe, I explored the idea that our reality is a hologram, a projection of consciousness. What RJ is describing fits with the idea that reality is not solid, but fluid, and can be manipulated by those with enough mastery over their consciousness. If Jesus understood that reality was holographic in nature, he could easily have created an illusion, like the crucifixion, by manipulating the collective consciousness of those around him.
Rupert Sheldrake: My work on morphic fields supports this idea as well. Collective expectations, as RJ mentioned, are forms of energy fields that guide the behavior of groups of people. If Jesus and his disciples were in tune with these fields, they could manipulate them to create the appearance of events like the crucifixion. This would be an example of spiritual mastery over the collective consciousness.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: During my near-death experiences, I saw how reality is not fixed. I realized that what we perceive as real is merely one version of many possible realities. When Jesus escaped the crucifixion, it was not just a physical escape—it was a manipulation of reality. He understood the deeper truths of existence, just like those I witnessed during my time in other dimensions.
RJ Spina: Exactly, Tsuruhiko. Once you understand that reality is fluid and subject to higher metaphysical laws, it becomes clear that events like the crucifixion were part of a larger plan to shift human consciousness. The physical world is only one aspect of reality, and once you understand how to manipulate the energies behind it, you can reshape events. Jesus was a master of this.
David Icke: This manipulation of reality extends to the modern world, too. The same techniques of controlling perception are being used by governments, corporations, and elites. They shape what we believe is possible and what we think is real, all while hiding the deeper truths about how reality actually works. The manipulation of Jesus’s story to control the masses is just one part of this ongoing narrative.
Rupert Sheldrake: The connection to morphic fields here is key. If you can influence the dominant fields of expectation and belief, you can shape reality itself. That’s what Jesus and his disciples did, and that’s what’s happening today with media and mass culture. Understanding this allows individuals to break free from the illusion.
Michael Talbot (via writings): And this is why Jesus’s mastery over the holographic nature of reality was so profound. He wasn’t just performing miracles—he was demonstrating that reality, as we perceive it, is not set in stone. By manipulating the underlying energies, he could change the world around him. This is something we’re only beginning to understand through modern physics and metaphysics.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: Exactly. My experiences showed me that we are capable of much more than we realize. When I returned from my near-death experiences, I understood that we, like Jesus, can manipulate reality if we tap into higher levels of consciousness. The boundaries between life, death, and existence are not as rigid as we think.
RJ Spina: That’s the key takeaway. Jesus was showing us that we have the potential to transcend physical reality. His story of the crucifixion, as an illusion, is meant to demonstrate that we too can learn to manipulate reality and break free from the limitations imposed by traditional beliefs. It’s about accessing higher consciousness and realizing our divine potential.
Empowerment, Divinity, and the Role of Organized Religion
RJ Spina: One of the core messages Jesus shared, which has often been distorted by organized religion, is that we are all inherently divine. The idea that humanity is sinful and needs saving has been used for control. In reality, Jesus was showing us how to access our true divine nature, something that is within all of us. He demonstrated that through spiritual practices, we can reconnect with our higher selves and transcend the limitations imposed by society and religion.
Ken Wilber: That ties in with what I’ve been exploring through my integral theory. Humanity’s spiritual evolution is about recognizing that the divine is not separate from us. We are evolving toward a higher state of consciousness where we understand that divinity is within us. What traditional religions often do is externalize God, creating a hierarchy that keeps people disconnected from their true power. Jesus was an example of what happens when someone fully embodies their higher self.
Eckhart Tolle: Yes, and much of that disconnection comes from identification with the ego. Organized religion often perpetuates the belief that we need salvation from something external, which feeds into the ego's need for control. But as Jesus taught, the kingdom of heaven is within us. When we move beyond the ego and become present, we reconnect with the divine source. Jesus’s message was about awakening to that presence, not creating dogma.
Sadhguru: I agree. Religion should be about empowering individuals to explore their own divine nature, not about enforcing rigid structures or beliefs. Unfortunately, most organized religions today have become about following rules rather than seeking truth. Jesus was a yogi of the highest order, and his teachings were about inner transformation. But over time, those teachings became distorted into a system of control, losing the essence of self-empowerment.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: From what I’ve experienced during my near-death experiences, I saw that every being is connected to the divine. The idea that people are born in sin is not true. I witnessed how souls are inherently divine and on a journey to rediscover that truth. Jesus’s true message was that we all have the potential to reconnect with that divine source and transcend the limitations of this physical reality. His life was an example of that.
RJ Spina: Exactly, Tsuruhiko. What Jesus wanted to show us is that the path to enlightenment and spiritual mastery is available to everyone. He wasn’t a savior in the way organized religion has portrayed him—he was a teacher showing us how to awaken our own divine potential. And the idea that we need an intermediary or institution to connect us to God is one of the greatest misrepresentations of his message.
Ken Wilber: That’s why I believe spiritual evolution is about integration. It’s about integrating all aspects of ourselves—body, mind, soul, and spirit—into a coherent whole. As we evolve, we move away from needing external structures to tell us what’s true. Instead, we start to experience that truth directly. Jesus was showing us what an integrated, fully realized human being looks like.
Eckhart Tolle: And once we stop identifying with the mind and ego, we can begin to experience that oneness with the divine. The belief that we are separate from God is the root of human suffering, and religion often reinforces that separation. But as Jesus demonstrated, when you move beyond the ego, you reconnect with the divine presence that has always been there. It’s not something external that we need to attain—it’s already within us.
Sadhguru: Yes, that is the essence of all true spiritual teachings. Jesus was pointing people toward an inner journey, not an outer system. The idea that one needs to wait for salvation or redemption is a misunderstanding of the entire spiritual process. The only thing stopping people from realizing their own divinity is their own limited perception. The spiritual path is about expanding that perception.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi: And during my experiences, I saw that once we understand the truth of our divine nature, everything changes. Jesus understood that reality itself is a manifestation of consciousness. He didn’t want people to blindly follow rules but to realize that they could create their own reality by reconnecting with their true essence.
RJ Spina: That’s the ultimate message: we are creators. Jesus wasn’t trying to be a religious figure—he was a master showing us that we have the same potential within us. The systems of organized religion have largely obscured this message by turning it into something external, but the truth is that each of us has the ability to awaken to our own divinity.
Short Bios:
RJ Spina is a spiritual teacher and author known for his work on metaphysical mastery, spiritual awakening, and the journey of human consciousness. After a miraculous recovery from paralysis, Spina devoted himself to helping others realize their own divine potential. His teachings focus on higher states of consciousness, energy healing, and understanding the true nature of reality beyond physical limitations. He emphasizes the importance of spiritual empowerment and accessing one’s inner divinity through meditation and metaphysical practices.
Tsuruhiko Kiuchi is a Japanese researcher and near-death experience (NDE) survivor who has dedicated much of his life to exploring the nature of life, death, and spiritual realities. His profound NDE led him to realize that reality is not fixed and that many religious stories, including that of Jesus’s crucifixion, may have been misunderstood. Kiuchi’s insights suggest that Jesus did not die on the cross and lived on in secret, traveling to places like Japan, where his teachings continued.
Graham Hancock is a British author and journalist who explores ancient civilizations, esoteric knowledge, and alternative history. He is best known for his books such as Fingerprints of the Gods, where he investigates the lost wisdom of ancient cultures, including Egypt and India, which align with metaphysical teachings. Hancock's work often challenges mainstream historical narratives, suggesting that ancient civilizations were far more advanced spiritually and technologically than commonly believed.
Bart Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar, historian, and author specializing in the historical study of Jesus and early Christianity. His books, including Misquoting Jesus and How Jesus Became God, critically examine the development of Christian doctrine and challenge traditional views of the Bible. Ehrman provides a historical perspective on the life of Jesus, focusing on what can be known from the earliest texts and records.
Paramahansa Yogananda (1893–1952) was an Indian yogi and spiritual teacher who introduced millions to the teachings of meditation and Kriya Yoga through his book Autobiography of a Yogi. Yogananda’s work emphasizes the unity between the teachings of Jesus and those of Eastern spiritual traditions, presenting Jesus as a yogi who mastered divine consciousness. His teachings encourage inner exploration and the realization of one's own divine potential.
Dr. Deepak Chopra is a well-known advocate for the integration of mind, body, and spirit in health and healing. He has written extensively on spirituality, consciousness, and quantum healing, offering a blend of Eastern philosophy and Western medicine. Chopra’s work emphasizes the power of consciousness in transforming physical and spiritual well-being, aligning with the idea of metaphysical mastery and spiritual empowerment.
Gregg Braden is a best-selling author and scientist known for his research on the intersection of science, spirituality, and human potential. He explores the ancient wisdom traditions, suggesting that modern science is beginning to validate the metaphysical principles taught by ancient spiritual masters. Braden’s work on energy fields, consciousness, and healing parallels RJ Spina’s teachings on metaphysical mastery.
Dr. Joe Dispenza is a neuroscientist and researcher who explores the power of the mind to transform the body through neuroplasticity, consciousness, and quantum physics. His books and workshops focus on self-healing and unlocking human potential by reprogramming the brain. His teachings align with RJ Spina’s view that spiritual mastery involves control over one's energy and reality.
Dolores Cannon (1931–2014) was a hypnotherapist and past-life regression expert who explored the concept of reincarnation and the evolution of souls. Her method, Quantum Healing Hypnosis Technique (QHHT), uncovered hidden knowledge through past-life memories, including the idea that advanced spiritual beings like Jesus incarnated multiple times. Cannon’s work highlights the idea of soulmates, twin flames, and spiritual evolution.
Dr. Brian Weiss is a psychiatrist and author known for his work on past-life regression therapy. His book Many Lives, Many Masters explores how uncovering past lives can lead to healing and spiritual growth. Weiss’s work supports the idea of reincarnation and the evolution of the soul, mirroring RJ Spina’s teachings on the soul’s journey through multiple lifetimes.
Dr. Ian Stevenson (1918–2007) was a Canadian psychiatrist known for his pioneering research into children’s past-life memories. His work provided empirical evidence for reincarnation, collecting thousands of case studies worldwide. Stevenson’s research supports the notion that consciousness survives death and reincarnates, contributing to the broader understanding of spiritual evolution.
David Icke is a British conspiracy theorist and author who has written extensively about the manipulation of reality by hidden forces. He believes that human perception is controlled by a matrix-like system, and his ideas align with the notion of reality being an illusion that can be manipulated by advanced spiritual beings, much like RJ Spina’s interpretation of Jesus’s crucifixion.
Michael Talbot (1953–1992) was the author of The Holographic Universe, where he proposed that the universe is a holographic projection of consciousness. Talbot’s work bridges the gap between science and metaphysics, suggesting that reality is not fixed but can be shaped by consciousness. His ideas closely align with RJ Spina’s notion that spiritual masters can manipulate reality through understanding metaphysical principles.
Rupert Sheldrake is a biologist and author best known for his theory of morphic fields, which posits that memory and behavior are influenced by invisible fields of collective consciousness. Sheldrake’s work suggests that spiritual practices and collective expectations can shape reality, aligning with RJ Spina’s view of the collective illusion created during the crucifixion.
Ken Wilber is an American philosopher and the founder of Integral Theory, which seeks to integrate all human knowledge—science, spirituality, philosophy—into a coherent framework. His work emphasizes the evolution of consciousness and the integration of body, mind, and spirit, aligning with RJ Spina’s message of spiritual empowerment and the realization of one’s divine nature.
Eckhart Tolle is a spiritual teacher and author of The Power of Now and A New Earth, where he teaches about the importance of living in the present moment and transcending the ego to realize one’s true divine nature. Tolle’s teachings on awakening and the dissolution of the ego align with RJ Spina’s emphasis on reconnecting with higher consciousness and divine potential.
Sadhguru is an Indian yogi, mystic, and founder of the Isha Foundation, whose teachings focus on self-realization and inner transformation. He emphasizes the importance of breaking free from external conditioning and discovering one's inner divinity, which resonates with RJ Spina’s ideas of spiritual empowerment and mastery.
Leave a Reply