Marianne Williamson’s A Return to Love: Leaders on Change

Hello, everyone! Today, we’re diving into a truly transformative discussion inspired by Marianne Williamson’s groundbreaking work A Return to Love. 

Joining us are some of the most iconic leaders from around the world—politicians and activists who have shaped history through their unique perspectives on love, forgiveness, and personal transformation.

This imaginary conversation brings together Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi, Jacinda Ardern, Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King Jr., and many more, all reflecting on how the power of love has driven their leadership, guided their decisions, and, ultimately, changed the world.

We’ll explore how forgiveness heals nations, how empathy shapes governance, and how shifting from fear to love has created miracles in leadership. So, sit back and prepare to be inspired by these incredible minds as they discuss the true meaning of love and transformation. Let’s get started!

Love as Our True Nature

Nick Sasaki: Welcome, everyone. Today’s conversation revolves around the idea that love is our true nature. Marianne Williamson has written extensively on this, and we’ll explore how each of you—leaders in your own right—have embodied love in your leadership. Marianne, can you start us off by explaining how love as our true nature can transform both individuals and societies?

Marianne Williamson: Thank you, Nick. It’s an honor to be in conversation with such remarkable leaders. When I speak of love as our true nature, I’m referring to a foundational truth about humanity. Love isn’t just an emotion—it’s the essence of who we are. Fear, hatred, and division arise from a misunderstanding of our true selves. These feelings are the result of the ego’s illusion of separation.

In my book A Return to Love, I highlight that once we recognize our inherent connection, we naturally begin to dissolve fear. When we return to love, we align with a power that not only transforms our personal lives but can heal entire societies. Throughout history, we’ve seen leaders like those here who’ve embraced love as a guiding force, not just as a sentiment but as an active principle. Love is revolutionary, and it can shape the destiny of nations when used as a force for unity and peace.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Marianne. That’s a profound introduction. Mahatma Gandhi, you spoke often about the power of love and nonviolence as transformative forces. How did love shape your approach to leadership, particularly in leading India’s independence movement?

Mahatma Gandhi: Thank you, Nick. As Marianne has said, love is not passive—it is the most powerful force in the universe. In my life, I have always believed that ahimsa, or nonviolence, is rooted in love. True nonviolence is not merely the absence of violence but the active force of love that seeks to awaken the goodness in every person. Even the oppressor is a child of God, and love is the force that can transform not only the oppressed but also the oppressor.

In leading India’s fight for independence, love was the only tool we had that could conquer the hatred and violence of colonialism. I believed deeply that only by practicing love through nonviolence could we achieve a lasting peace. Hatred would have only led to more hatred. But love—it disarms the heart and allows both sides to recognize their shared humanity. It was through this force that we achieved freedom, not just for ourselves, but for our oppressors as well.

Nick Sasaki: That’s a beautiful reflection, Gandhi. You demonstrated how love can be an active force for justice and change. Nelson Mandela, you also embraced love after years of imprisonment. How did love influence your approach to healing a deeply divided South Africa?

Nelson Mandela: Thank you, Nick, and thank you, Gandhi, for your words. My journey with love began during my imprisonment. I realized that hatred and bitterness would only destroy me and my country. The challenge was immense—how do you love those who have caused you and your people so much pain? But I came to understand that love was the only way forward.

When I was released, I had a choice: to seek revenge or to seek reconciliation. I chose reconciliation because love is stronger than vengeance. The creation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa was based on the idea that only through love and forgiveness could we heal. I wanted to build a nation on the foundations of unity, and love was the only way to bridge the divides of race and hatred. This didn’t mean ignoring the past but addressing it with compassion and understanding. Love was, and still is, the most powerful tool for peace.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Nelson. That’s a powerful testament to how love can bring about healing in the face of immense pain. Jacinda Ardern, as a modern-day leader, you’ve been praised for your compassionate leadership. How does love guide your approach to governance in New Zealand?

Jacinda Ardern: Thank you, Nick. For me, love manifests as empathy in leadership. It’s about understanding the people you’re serving and making decisions that come from a place of care for their well-being. In New Zealand, I’ve always believed that leadership should be compassionate, especially in times of crisis. Whether it was after the Christchurch mosque attacks or during the pandemic, my guiding principle was love for the people of my country.

Love in governance doesn’t mean you avoid making tough decisions, but it does mean that those decisions are driven by the desire to protect and uplift others. Strong leadership and kindness are not mutually exclusive. I’ve seen how love, in the form of empathy and care, can unite a nation, especially when we are faced with challenges that could otherwise divide us. To lead with love is to lead with humanity, and that is what I strive to do every day.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Jacinda. It’s clear that love, when applied as a principle in leadership, can unite and heal in both personal and political contexts. Marianne, hearing these examples from Gandhi, Mandela, and Ardern, what are your thoughts on how their leadership reflects the idea of love as our true nature?

Shifting from Fear to Love

Nick Sasaki: Let’s now turn to our second topic, “Shifting from Fear to Love.” Marianne, this is one of the core ideas you teach—that much of our suffering stems from fear, and the shift to love can transform not only our personal lives but also the broader world. Could you start by explaining this concept for us?

Marianne Williamson: Absolutely, Nick. At the heart of human suffering is fear—fear of the unknown, fear of loss, fear of one another. Fear drives us to build walls, both metaphorically and literally. However, when we shift from fear to love, we begin to see things differently. We recognize that fear is an illusion created by the ego, while love is the ultimate truth.

When individuals, communities, and even nations operate from fear, they act defensively, sometimes aggressively, often creating the very conditions they fear. Shifting to love means choosing trust, compassion, and connection instead of distrust, aggression, and isolation. Love isn’t just a lofty ideal; it’s a practical force that can guide us to make decisions that benefit everyone. And as we’ll hear from our esteemed participants, this shift has played a pivotal role in leadership and the pursuit of peace.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Marianne. Jimmy Carter, as a former U.S. president and a global humanitarian, you’ve always emphasized peace and diplomacy, often in situations where fear could have driven conflict. How did this concept of shifting from fear to love influence your approach to leadership?

Jimmy Carter: Thank you, Nick. For me, the choice between fear and love was something I encountered frequently, both as a president and in my humanitarian work. When you lead a nation, fear is often the default setting—fear of external threats, fear of failure, fear of public opinion. But I always believed that love, expressed as empathy and a genuine concern for others, was a more powerful and lasting solution.

Whether it was in negotiating peace between Egypt and Israel at Camp David or working with organizations like Habitat for Humanity, I saw that when you approach people with understanding and respect, rather than fear or aggression, you open the door to real solutions. Shifting from fear to love means seeing the humanity in others and working toward common ground rather than division. It's the only way to achieve lasting peace.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, President Carter. That’s a profound way to look at leadership. Martin Luther King Jr., your leadership in the civil rights movement was deeply rooted in love, even in the face of violent opposition. Can you share how the shift from fear to love shaped your philosophy of nonviolence?

Martin Luther King Jr.: Thank you, Nick. My belief in the power of love was central to the civil rights movement. The philosophy of nonviolence was not simply the absence of physical violence—it was the presence of love. Love for our oppressors, love for our fellow human beings, and love for justice. This love was not passive; it was an active force that demanded we respond to hatred with compassion, to fear with courage.

Fear is what fuels racism, segregation, and violence. It’s the fear of the unknown, the fear of losing privilege, and the fear of change. But love, when embraced fully, transforms that fear. It allows us to see that we are all connected, that an injustice to one is an injustice to all. Shifting from fear to love is not only the moral choice—it’s the most powerful weapon against oppression. Love, as a guiding principle, brings us closer to the beloved community, where everyone is treated with dignity and respect.

Nick Sasaki: That’s an incredible perspective, Dr. King. Your work is a testament to the power of love in action. John F. Kennedy, you also navigated times of intense fear, such as the Cuban Missile Crisis. How did you see the shift from fear to love playing a role in leadership during such pivotal moments?

John F. Kennedy: Thank you, Nick. In moments of crisis, fear is often the dominant force. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the world was on the brink of nuclear war, and fear could have easily driven us into catastrophe. But I believed that diplomacy, communication, and a commitment to peace—rather than fear—were the only ways to avoid conflict.

Shifting from fear to love, in this case, meant seeing beyond the immediate threats and understanding that both sides had much to lose if we allowed fear to dictate our actions. Love for humanity, for the lives at stake, required that we step back from the edge and find a solution through dialogue and mutual understanding. It wasn’t about being weak or passive; it was about being courageous enough to choose peace when the easier option might have been aggression.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, President Kennedy. It’s powerful to hear how love guided your decision-making during one of the most tense moments in modern history. Each of your experiences highlights how prioritizing love over fear can lead to transformative leadership, fostering peace and understanding on a grand scale. Your examples show how love can be the foundation for long-term change, both in personal and global contexts.

The Power of Forgiveness

Nick Sasaki: Our third topic is “The Power of Forgiveness,” a principle that’s critical in personal healing and nation-building. Marianne, forgiveness plays a key role in your teachings. Can you start by explaining why forgiveness is so powerful and how it connects to love?

Marianne Williamson: Thank you, Nick. Forgiveness is at the heart of love because it frees us from the chains of the past. When we hold onto resentment or anger, we block love from fully entering our lives. Forgiveness doesn’t mean condoning harmful behavior, but it does mean releasing the emotional burden that weighs us down. It’s an act of love for ourselves and for others because it allows us to move forward without the poison of bitterness.

In the larger context of society, forgiveness is an essential tool for healing. If we want to create peace in our communities and the world, we must first heal our own hearts. True forgiveness leads to reconciliation, and as we’ll hear today, it has been a guiding force for incredible leaders who’ve transformed their nations through the power of letting go and choosing love.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Marianne. Nelson Mandela, your story of forgiveness after decades of imprisonment is one of the most powerful in history. Can you share how forgiveness influenced your leadership in South Africa, particularly with the establishment of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

Nelson Mandela: Thank you, Nick. For me, forgiveness was a necessity, not a luxury. After spending 27 years in prison, I knew that holding onto anger would only poison my heart and my vision for South Africa. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was based on the idea that we could not move forward as a nation unless we forgave the past. This didn’t mean forgetting or denying the atrocities of apartheid, but facing them with the goal of healing.

Forgiveness, for me, was about creating a future where we could coexist as equals, free from the hatred that had divided us for so long. It was a way of saying that while we remember the past, we refuse to let it dictate our future. In choosing to forgive, we laid the foundation for a new South Africa built on peace and unity.

Nick Sasaki: That’s incredibly moving, Nelson. Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, as Liberia’s first female president, you faced the monumental task of leading a country torn apart by civil war. How did forgiveness factor into your efforts to rebuild the nation?

Ellen Johnson Sirleaf: Thank you, Nick. In Liberia, we had experienced decades of civil war and unimaginable suffering. Rebuilding the country required not just physical reconstruction but emotional and spiritual healing. Forgiveness was a key component of that healing. Without it, the cycle of violence and revenge would have continued.

As president, I encouraged Liberians to forgive one another, to lay down their weapons, and to focus on rebuilding the future rather than being trapped in the pain of the past. I knew that if we didn’t address the trauma with forgiveness, we could never truly move forward as a nation. It was not easy—many people had lost loved ones and endured great hardships—but forgiveness was necessary for our collective healing.

Nick Sasaki: Desmond Tutu, you were a key figure in South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and your leadership in promoting forgiveness has inspired many around the world. Can you share your perspective on why forgiveness is such a powerful tool for healing?

Desmond Tutu: Thank you, Nick. Forgiveness is indeed a powerful tool because it liberates both the victim and the perpetrator. It is an act of grace that breaks the cycle of retribution. In South Africa, we saw this firsthand. Without forgiveness, we could have easily descended into more violence after apartheid. But with forgiveness, we chose to heal.

I often say that there is no future without forgiveness. When we refuse to forgive, we hold onto the pain and anger that keeps us stuck in the past. But when we forgive, we release ourselves from that burden and create space for love, peace, and reconciliation. Forgiveness is a gift that we give ourselves as much as it is to others. It’s about seeing the humanity in everyone, even those who have caused us harm.

Nick Sasaki: Hearing from all of you, it’s evident that forgiveness is more than just a personal act—it’s a powerful force for societal healing and transformation. Your leadership demonstrates how forgiveness can break the chains of the past and pave the way for a more peaceful and united future.

Relationships as Spiritual Assignments

Nick Sasaki: For our fourth topic, we’re exploring the idea of relationships as spiritual assignments, a concept Marianne speaks about often. Relationships, whether personal or professional, can be powerful opportunities for growth, healing, and understanding. Marianne, could you begin by explaining how relationships serve as spiritual assignments?

Marianne Williamson: Absolutely, Nick. Relationships are not random. I believe every person we meet is sent to us as part of our soul’s journey. These relationships, whether they are difficult or joyful, are designed to teach us lessons about love, forgiveness, compassion, and personal growth. The idea is that each relationship is an assignment from the universe, meant to help us evolve spiritually.

In every relationship, there is an opportunity for healing—either to heal something within ourselves or to help the other person heal. Sometimes, the most challenging relationships are the ones that offer the deepest growth. They force us to confront parts of ourselves that we might not want to face, but through that process, we return to love, which is our true nature.

Nick Sasaki: That’s a beautiful perspective, Marianne. Angela Merkel, as a long-serving leader of Germany, you’ve had to navigate many relationships with other world leaders. How did you view these relationships in the context of building bridges and understanding between nations?

Angela Merkel: Thank you, Nick. In diplomacy and leadership, relationships are key. I’ve always seen the relationships I’ve built with other leaders as opportunities to create understanding and find common ground, even when our nations might have different interests. I approached these relationships with a sense of responsibility and humility, knowing that our ability to work together could shape the future of our countries and the world.

In that sense, relationships in leadership are indeed spiritual assignments. They challenge you to see beyond your own perspective, to listen, and to find solutions that are rooted in mutual respect. I often reminded myself that every leader I interacted with was representing the hopes and dreams of their people, just as I was. It’s through these relationships that real progress is made, even in the most difficult of times.

Nick Sasaki: That’s a great insight, Angela. The ability to build understanding through relationships is crucial in leadership. Dalai Lama, as both a spiritual and political figure, how do you see relationships playing a role in spiritual growth and in your advocacy for compassion?

Dalai Lama: Thank you, Nick. From my perspective, every relationship we have—whether with a family member, friend, or even an adversary—is an opportunity to practice compassion. In Buddhism, we believe that every person we encounter is a teacher. They reflect back to us our own challenges and strengths, and they offer us the chance to practice patience, empathy, and love.

In my life, I’ve had relationships with people from all walks of life—leaders, refugees, monks, and even those who oppose my work. But I view each of them as part of my spiritual path. Every encounter gives me the chance to cultivate a deeper sense of compassion and to recognize the shared humanity between us. Even in political or difficult situations, I try to approach others with love and understanding, because it’s through these relationships that we can bring about true peace.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Dalai Lama. That’s a powerful way to view relationships—as opportunities to practice compassion and understanding. Franklin D. Roosevelt, during your presidency, you formed key alliances during World War II. How did you approach those relationships, knowing the immense stakes for the future of the world?

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Thank you, Nick. During World War II, the relationships we formed with our allies were absolutely critical. These weren’t easy relationships—they were filled with tension, disagreement, and the weight of the world on our shoulders. But I saw them as necessary. Each leader brought their own perspective and interests to the table, but we had to find common ground for the sake of global peace.

I approached those relationships with a sense of purpose and duty, knowing that our ability to work together would determine the fate of millions. There were times when diplomacy required patience and compromise, but I always kept in mind the bigger picture—the shared goal of defeating tyranny and creating a more just world. In that sense, these relationships were spiritual assignments, testing our resolve and challenging us to rise above fear and division for the greater good.

Nick Sasaki: It’s fascinating to hear how relationships, whether on the global stage or in our personal lives, can be seen as assignments that push us toward growth and deeper understanding. Each of your experiences shows how these connections, even in challenging times, have the potential to foster compassion, collaboration, and peace.

Miracles as Shifts in Perception

Nick Sasaki: Our final topic today is “Miracles as Shifts in Perception.” Marianne, you’ve often taught that miracles aren’t necessarily supernatural events, but rather shifts in how we perceive our circumstances. Could you start by explaining this concept and how it applies to leadership and personal transformation?

Marianne Williamson: Absolutely, Nick. When I talk about miracles, I’m referring to a change in the way we see the world. A miracle is a shift from fear to love, from separation to unity, and from hopelessness to possibility. It’s not about defying the laws of nature, but about changing the lens through which we see our lives and the world.

In leadership, this kind of shift can have a profound impact. When leaders choose to approach problems from a place of love, compassion, and connectedness, rather than fear or ego, they open up new pathways for resolution. These shifts in perception can lead to breakthroughs—whether in diplomacy, conflict resolution, or even in personal interactions. Leaders who see beyond fear and scarcity can create environments of possibility, where real, lasting change can happen. These shifts, to me, are nothing short of miraculous.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Marianne. Winston Churchill, you led Britain through one of its darkest times during World War II. How did shifting your perspective help you lead during such intense fear and uncertainty?

Winston Churchill: Thank you, Nick. Leadership during times of crisis often requires a shift in perspective. When the world was on the brink of collapse during the war, fear could have easily taken hold—fear of defeat, fear of destruction, fear of the unknown. But I knew that we had to shift from a perspective of fear to one of resilience and hope.

This shift was not easy, but it was necessary. I often spoke of courage, not because it was a given, but because it was something we had to cultivate. We had to see the war not just as a struggle for survival, but as a fight for the preservation of freedom and humanity. By focusing on our shared purpose and resilience, we were able to transform the fear that could have paralyzed us into a collective strength. That shift in perception—from fear to determination—was, in a sense, a miracle that helped us endure.

Nick Sasaki: Thank you, Churchill. It’s powerful to hear how changing the collective mindset helped Britain persevere during such a difficult time. Aung San Suu Kyi, your journey as a leader in Myanmar’s fight for democracy has been long and challenging. How did shifting your perception help you lead your people through such struggles?

Aung San Suu Kyi: Thank you, Nick. For me, the shift in perception was about seeing the struggle for democracy not as a battle to be fought with anger or resentment, but as a mission driven by love for my country and its people. Fear and anger could easily have consumed us, given the years of oppression and hardship, but I knew that to lead effectively, I had to approach our mission with peace and compassion.

The real miracle was realizing that our strength lay not in force, but in our unity and our love for justice. I often spoke of the power of peace, because I believed that only by shifting away from the fear of our oppressors could we find the strength to persevere. It’s that shift—from fear to love, from conflict to peace—that has guided me throughout my journey. This shift empowered me and my people to continue fighting for freedom, even when the road seemed impossible.

Nick Sasaki: That’s an inspiring perspective, Aung San Suu Kyi. Shifting from conflict to peace is indeed a profound transformation. Lula da Silva, during your time as Brazil’s president, you led the country through significant social and economic changes. How did shifting perceptions play a role in transforming Brazil?

Lula da Silva: Thank you, Nick. In Brazil, we faced many challenges—poverty, inequality, and political instability. When I became president, I knew that the key to transforming our country was to shift how people saw themselves and their potential. For too long, many in Brazil had been trapped in a mindset of hopelessness and despair. They didn’t believe things could change.

The real miracle was changing that perception. We had to instill a sense of possibility, of hope, and of belief that through unity and hard work, we could build a better future. This shift wasn’t just about policies—it was about changing the way people thought about themselves and their role in society. By focusing on love for our country and our people, we were able to lift millions out of poverty and create real, lasting change. It all started with that shift in perception.

Nick Sasaki: Hearing from all of you, it’s remarkable how shifting perception—whether in times of war, struggle for democracy, or social transformation—has the power to create real miracles. It’s not about waiting for something magical to happen but about choosing to see the world, and our challenges, through a different lens—one rooted in love, hope, and possibility. Each of your experiences shows how these shifts can lead to profound and lasting change.

Short Bios:

Marianne Williamson: A bestselling author, spiritual leader, and political activist, Marianne Williamson is best known for her teachings on love, forgiveness, and personal transformation. Her book A Return to Love has inspired millions to embrace love as a guiding force in life and leadership.

Nelson Mandela: The former president of South Africa and a global icon of peace, Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in prison before leading the country’s transition from apartheid to democracy. Mandela’s leadership was rooted in forgiveness, reconciliation, and the power of love.

Mahatma Gandhi: A leader of India’s nonviolent independence movement, Mahatma Gandhi advocated for ahimsa (nonviolence) and believed that love is the highest force for change. His philosophy of peaceful resistance has inspired countless movements worldwide.

Jacinda Ardern: Jacinda Ardern, former prime minister of New Zealand, is widely recognized for her compassionate leadership. She focused on empathy, kindness, and unity in both her domestic policies and international relations, particularly during times of crisis.

Jimmy Carter: The 39th president of the United States, Jimmy Carter, is known for his efforts in peacebuilding and humanitarian work. After his presidency, Carter dedicated his life to diplomacy and human rights, receiving a Nobel Peace Prize for his work.

Martin Luther King Jr: A civil rights leader and Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Martin Luther King Jr. is remembered for his advocacy of nonviolence and racial equality. His vision of a society rooted in love and justice continues to inspire movements for civil rights and social change.

John F. Kennedy: The 35th president of the United States, John F. Kennedy led the country through pivotal moments, including the Cuban Missile Crisis. His leadership was marked by diplomacy, a commitment to peace, and a vision of global cooperation.

Winston Churchill: As the prime minister of the United Kingdom during World War II, Winston Churchill is renowned for his steadfast leadership. His speeches and determination helped rally Britain through its darkest hours, emphasizing courage and resilience in the face of fear.

Aung San Suu Kyi: A Nobel Peace Prize laureate and former leader of Myanmar’s pro-democracy movement, Aung San Suu Kyi advocated for peaceful resistance against military rule. She remains a symbol of the struggle for democracy and human rights.

Lula da Silva: Former president of Brazil, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, led the country through a period of economic and social transformation. His policies lifted millions out of poverty, and he remains an advocate for social justice and equality.