Rev. Moon & Kim Jong Un Discuss Peace and Leadership

Today we are privileged to witness a unique and thought-provoking conversation between two of the most significant figures shaping the Korean Peninsula: Rev. Sun Myung Moon and Kim Jong Un. Rev. Moon, renowned for his peace-building efforts and unprecedented dialogues with world leaders, sits down with Chairman Kim to explore crucial topics like reunification, nuclear disarmament, economic cooperation, and the role of leadership in peace efforts. These two leaders, though seemingly at odds ideologically, delve into the complexities of trust, diplomacy, and envisioning a unified Korea.

Rev. Moon, who has engaged with some of history’s most powerful leaders, once met with Kim Jong Un's grandfather, Kim Il-sung, promoting the idea that differences can be reconciled for a greater cause—peace. In this conversation, they reflect on how peace doesn’t have to mean weakness, but can be a form of true strength, where a nation's identity remains intact, and yet, there’s space for growth and cooperation.

What we have before us today is not just a geopolitical conversation, but a deep, personal dialogue on leadership and how ideology can be used to inspire unity, rather than division. Join me as we step into this powerful discussion, which could serve as a blueprint for lasting peace on the Korean Peninsula.

Harmonizing Ideologies for Korean Reunification

Kim Jong Un: Rev. Moon, your history with my grandfather, Kim Il-sung, is well known. You’ve advocated for peace and reunification on the Korean Peninsula, yet the reality is, North and South Korea stand on opposing sides ideologically. What do you believe is the path forward for reunification when our systems are so fundamentally different?

Rev. Moon: Chairman Kim, I appreciate the gravity of this question. When I met with your grandfather in 1991, it was clear that despite our differences, there was a shared desire for peace and a unified Korea. The core of the Unification Principle I advocate for is the belief that differences, no matter how deep, can be reconciled through mutual understanding and respect. It’s not about erasing North Korea’s identity or South Korea’s democracy. Rather, it's about finding common ground where both can coexist peacefully, allowing for ideological diversity while pursuing a shared vision of prosperity for the Korean people.

Kim Jong Un: That’s easier said than done, especially when the South is closely aligned with the United States. From where we stand, it feels as though reunification on their terms would mean the collapse of our system, and that’s not something I am willing to risk.

Rev. Moon: I understand that concern. However, reunification doesn’t have to mean the absorption of one by the other. My vision is one where both North and South Korea remain distinct, yet work together in harmony. It’s similar to the path I took when engaging with the Soviet Union. When I met with Mikhail Gorbachev, it wasn’t about destroying their communist system, but about opening up pathways for dialogue and exchange. Similarly, reunification should focus on shared values—family, peace, prosperity—while allowing each side to maintain its identity.

Kim Jong Un: You speak of shared values, but trust is the key issue here. How can we trust South Korea or the international community when they constantly view us as the enemy?

Rev. Moon: Trust is built over time through action. One way to start is by engaging in small, mutually beneficial projects—perhaps joint economic initiatives or cultural exchanges, where neither side feels threatened. Just as I facilitated cultural exchanges between the Soviet Union and the United States, similar steps can be taken between the North and South. As both sides work together on these smaller issues, trust can grow. This foundation of trust will then allow for more significant discussions on reunification.

Kim Jong Un: You make it sound simple, but the road ahead is long and filled with obstacles. Still, I cannot ignore the fact that your meeting with my grandfather left a lasting impact on him. I’m open to considering the idea of small initiatives as a starting point. However, North Korea’s sovereignty and system must be preserved.

Rev. Moon: Of course, preserving sovereignty is crucial. This is not about one side overpowering the other. It is about the Korean people uniting for a shared future, one that benefits both North and South. Ideological differences can coexist, just as countries with different systems have cooperated in the past. The key is to start the process, even if it’s incremental. Together, through patience and mutual respect, a path to reunification can be forged.

Kim Jong Un: Your words give me something to reflect on. Reunification has always been in our hearts, but the means to achieve it have seemed out of reach. If small steps can build trust without compromising our system, perhaps there’s room for dialogue.

Rev. Moon: Indeed, Chairman Kim. The journey toward reunification will not happen overnight, but every step forward, no matter how small, brings us closer. The world is watching, but this is not just about geopolitics. It’s about bringing peace to the Korean Peninsula, healing a division that has lasted far too long. With your leadership, great things can be achieved.

Economic Cooperation for Sustainable Growth

Kim Jong Un: Rev. Moon, you mentioned small steps toward trust. Economic cooperation is often suggested as a way to build that trust, but North Korea has been wary of foreign influence. How do you propose we engage in economic collaboration without compromising our sovereignty or becoming dependent on external powers?

Rev. Moon: Chairman Kim, economic cooperation doesn't have to mean dependency. It can be structured in ways that enhance North Korea's self-reliance while still fostering growth. My approach has always been about mutually beneficial partnerships, not domination. Take, for example, the initiatives I launched between the Soviet Union and the United States—both sides gained from the exchanges without one overpowering the other. The key is to identify areas where North Korea can provide value on the global stage, whether through natural resources, industry, or even tourism, and in return, receive what you need to build infrastructure and improve living conditions for your people.

Kim Jong Un: That sounds ideal, but the reality is more complex. The South and other countries have long pushed for economic integration as a means to influence us politically. I cannot allow that to happen under the guise of cooperation.

Rev. Moon: I understand your caution, and it's justified. However, there is a way to protect North Korea's interests while still reaping the benefits of economic collaboration. For example, joint economic zones or projects can be initiated with clear, mutually agreed-upon terms. These could be in sectors where North Korea excels, such as mining or energy. By keeping control of key industries within your borders, you maintain your sovereignty while still benefiting from technological and financial support. It's a model that has worked in other regions facing similar challenges, and it could work here as well.

Kim Jong Un: Joint economic zones, you say. We’ve seen attempts at this in the past, such as in Kaesong, but they haven't always been successful. How would this approach be different?

Rev. Moon: The success of these projects hinges on transparency and shared benefits. Both sides need to see clear value in the cooperation, and any agreement should ensure that North Korea remains in control of its strategic resources. My vision is one where North Korea can become a bridge between East and West, just as I helped the Soviet Union open up to the West while retaining its core identity. With your leadership, you can guide North Korea into economic partnerships that respect your principles while fostering growth. It’s about balance—maintaining control while inviting collaboration where it aligns with your goals.

Kim Jong Un: The challenge is that many of our people have suffered under economic sanctions and isolation. How do we make sure that any economic collaboration improves their lives directly?

Rev. Moon: That is a crucial point. Economic cooperation must first and foremost benefit the people. Infrastructure projects—roads, schools, hospitals—are visible improvements that can be directly tied to cooperation efforts. By focusing on these areas, you ensure that the fruits of collaboration go directly to improving the daily lives of North Koreans. Furthermore, by strengthening your infrastructure, you lay the foundation for greater self-sufficiency, allowing North Korea to participate in global trade on its own terms, not as a dependent but as an equal partner.

Kim Jong Un: Infrastructure is something we’ve been focusing on, but it's costly. Opening up to foreign assistance has always felt like a risk. Yet, if what you’re saying holds, that we could maintain control and receive what’s necessary to build our country… it's something to consider.

Rev. Moon: Exactly, Chairman Kim. It's about finding the right partners and the right projects. You don’t have to open the floodgates all at once. Start with small, strategic collaborations where North Korea sets the terms, and let the benefits speak for themselves. As trust grows, so will the scope of cooperation. But at every step, you maintain control, ensuring that any progress made is sustainable and in line with your vision for the country.

Kim Jong Un: The idea of gradual, controlled cooperation is one I can entertain. We must tread carefully, but if these partnerships can be structured on our terms, perhaps we can engage without compromising our sovereignty.

Rev. Moon: That’s the key—partnerships on your terms, designed to uplift North Korea without altering its core principles. I believe that with your leadership and vision, North Korea can find a path forward where economic cooperation enhances your nation’s strength and the well-being of your people, without sacrificing what you hold dear.

Cultural Exchange as a Pathway to Peace

Kim Jong Un: You speak of partnerships and economic collaboration, but there’s more to international relations than just commerce. Cultural exchange has been suggested in the past, but North Korea values its distinct identity. Why should we risk exposing our people to foreign influences that could undermine our social fabric?

Rev. Moon: Chairman Kim, I completely understand your concern. Cultural exchange doesn’t mean diluting your nation’s identity or allowing foreign influence to erode your values. Rather, it’s a way to showcase North Korea’s rich culture to the world while gaining new perspectives. When I facilitated cultural exchanges between the Soviet Union and the U.S., the goal wasn’t to change who the Soviets were, but to foster mutual understanding. These exchanges build trust and soften the walls of fear and misunderstanding. For North Korea, such exchanges could be carefully structured to ensure that your traditions and values are preserved, even as you engage with the world.

Kim Jong Un: The idea of controlled exchanges is intriguing, but how would they benefit us? We are proud of our culture, but it’s not something we typically share openly with the world.

Rev. Moon: That’s precisely why cultural exchange is so powerful, Chairman Kim. By sharing North Korea’s culture, arts, and history with the outside world, you control the narrative. You shape how your nation is perceived internationally. Rather than letting the world define North Korea through media or hearsay, you can present the truth of your people’s resilience, creativity, and values. At the same time, select exchanges with other countries could expose North Koreans to new ideas and innovations that don’t threaten your identity but inspire growth—whether it’s in the arts, education, or even science and technology.

Kim Jong Un: What kind of exchanges are you suggesting? Our people aren’t accustomed to traveling abroad, and the idea of outsiders coming here raises concerns about influence and control.

Rev. Moon: The exchanges don’t have to be large-scale or immediate. They can start small, with delegations of artists, scholars, or athletes. For example, a North Korean arts delegation visiting another country could showcase traditional music, theater, or painting. In return, you might invite artists from other nations to collaborate on joint projects in North Korea, under your terms. These exchanges would be cultural, not political, and could be limited to fields where North Korea already excels. This approach allows you to demonstrate pride in your culture while fostering goodwill internationally.

Kim Jong Un: It’s true that we have a rich cultural heritage, but these exchanges still seem like a risk. The West, in particular, is seen as an adversary. How do we know they wouldn’t use these exchanges as a way to undermine our system?

Rev. Moon: That’s where careful planning and oversight come in. You can ensure that any foreign engagement aligns with your nation’s values. It’s not about opening the floodgates, but rather selecting specific, low-risk areas where both sides can benefit. The arts, sports, or even historical studies—these are fields where politics don’t need to play a role. By starting with neutral or non-political exchanges, you show the world that North Korea is willing to engage on its own terms, without compromising its core values. Over time, as trust builds, the exchanges can evolve in ways that foster deeper mutual respect.

Kim Jong Un: If we were to consider this, it would have to be under strict guidelines. The arts or sports could be possible starting points, but I would need to see tangible benefits. Our isolation has protected us, and this would be a significant shift in approach.

Rev. Moon: Absolutely, Chairman Kim. I suggest starting small, with a focus on areas where North Korea’s strength and uniqueness shine. Think of it as an opportunity to show the world the beauty and depth of your culture while fostering goodwill. Tangible benefits will come with time, in the form of improved international relations, softened perceptions, and potentially even new economic and diplomatic opportunities. Remember, cultural exchanges aren’t about erasing differences but about building bridges—ones that can lead to greater peace and understanding.

Kim Jong Un: You’ve given me something to think about. The idea of promoting our culture on the world stage, under our control, is an interesting one. Perhaps this could be a way to show the strength and pride of the North Korean people, while keeping external influences in check.

Rev. Moon: Exactly. Your nation’s culture is a powerful tool for diplomacy and respect on the global stage. Through controlled, well-managed exchanges, North Korea can assert its identity while fostering relationships that could lead to peace. These steps don’t weaken a nation; they strengthen it by allowing its voice to be heard.

Nuclear Disarmament and Global Peace Initiatives

Kim Jong Un: Rev. Moon, much of the world sees North Korea's nuclear program as a threat to global peace. Yet, from our perspective, it’s a necessary deterrent for survival. How would you propose we reconcile this with the international demand for denuclearization without compromising our security?

Rev. Moon: Chairman Kim, I understand the complexity of your position. The nuclear issue is indeed one of the most delicate topics in international relations. However, history has shown us that true security doesn’t come from weapons, but from trust and cooperation. When I engaged with Mikhail Gorbachev and helped build bridges between the Soviet Union and the West, it wasn’t about forcing the Soviets to abandon their identity or security. Instead, it was about creating an environment where disarmament became a natural choice, because peace and prosperity were more beneficial than the arms race.

Kim Jong Un: Trust is a scarce commodity. The West demands denuclearization, yet they maintain their own stockpiles. How can we trust a world that imposes conditions on us that they themselves do not follow?

Rev. Moon: That’s a valid concern. But disarmament doesn’t have to be an all-or-nothing approach. North Korea can take incremental steps that signal a willingness to engage in the global community without immediately disarming. By initiating peace talks or participating in regional security agreements, North Korea could gradually build trust with other nations while maintaining its defense posture in the short term. This could also open up avenues for economic and diplomatic benefits, which in the long run would strengthen your nation's security far more than a nuclear arsenal.

Kim Jong Un: But what would these incremental steps look like? We’ve seen agreements fall apart in the past. How do we ensure that North Korea’s needs for security and sovereignty are respected?

Rev. Moon: The key is to negotiate on equal terms. North Korea must present itself as a partner in peace, not a nation submitting to foreign demands. The first step could be a moratorium on nuclear tests in exchange for economic or diplomatic concessions. This would not require immediate disarmament but would show a commitment to peace. In the long term, this could lead to multilateral security guarantees from both regional powers and the international community. The process needs to be gradual and reciprocal, with each step ensuring that North Korea’s sovereignty is not compromised.

Kim Jong Un: You’re asking us to trust the same global community that has sanctioned us for years. What makes this different? How do we know this won’t just lead to more demands and pressure?

Rev. Moon: I would never suggest that trust can be built overnight, Chairman Kim. But it begins with small actions, and the rewards can be substantial. Look at the Soviet Union and the path they chose—through dialogue and incremental agreements, they were able to gain economic benefits, international legitimacy, and a stronger global presence, all without immediate disarmament. If North Korea leads the conversation on denuclearization, it can frame the narrative on its own terms, rather than reacting to external pressure. In doing so, you can gain more control over the process.

Kim Jong Un: Framing the narrative is important. If we were to take these steps, it would have to be on our terms, ensuring that our leadership is not seen as weak. How would you suggest we maintain that perception of strength while engaging in talks of disarmament?

Rev. Moon: Strength isn’t just in military might, Chairman Kim. True strength is demonstrated through leadership and vision. By initiating peace talks and framing them as a bold step toward ensuring the safety and prosperity of the Korean people, you position yourself not as a follower of international demands, but as a leader shaping the future of the Korean Peninsula. It’s about showing the world that North Korea is strong enough to pursue peace on its own terms, not because of external pressure, but because it’s the right path for the future of your nation.

Kim Jong Un: That’s an interesting perspective. We’ve always seen nuclear power as our strength, but perhaps leading the charge for peace can also be a form of power. However, any steps we take will need to be cautious and strategic.

Rev. Moon: Absolutely. Every step toward disarmament should be calculated and paired with clear benefits for North Korea—whether that’s economic relief, security guarantees, or international recognition. You maintain control throughout the process, and each step reinforces North Korea’s position as a leader in the global peace movement. Over time, as trust builds, the necessity for nuclear weapons diminishes, replaced by stronger diplomatic ties and economic stability.

Kim Jong Un: I see. You’re suggesting that we don’t abandon our nuclear program all at once, but gradually, as our relationships with other nations improve. If we can ensure that our security is protected, perhaps this could be a path forward.

Rev. Moon: Exactly. Gradual, measured steps toward disarmament, framed as a vision of peace, could elevate North Korea’s standing in the world. You would be seen as a leader in global peace efforts, all while ensuring your nation’s safety and sovereignty. It’s a bold vision, but one that could lead to lasting security far beyond what weapons can provide.

The Role of Faith and Ideology in National Leadership

Kim Jong Un: You’ve spoken a lot about trust, peace, and cooperation, but these are not just political ideas—they’re deeply tied to beliefs and values. Faith, for some, plays a role in leadership, but in North Korea, our ideology is centered on self-reliance and the legacy of my forefathers. How do you see faith and ideology intersecting in national leadership, especially when they differ so widely across nations?

Rev. Moon: Chairman Kim, I believe that faith, whether religious or ideological, shapes the vision and purpose of leadership. In my own life, my faith has been the driving force behind my mission to unify people, bridge divides, and promote peace. It’s not about imposing one belief over another, but about using faith as a foundation to uplift the nation and ensure its prosperity. North Korea's ideology of self-reliance, or Juche, shares some common ground with my views—it emphasizes independence, strength, and the well-being of the people. My vision has always been to harness such values in a way that serves the greater good, transcending borders and ideologies.

Kim Jong Un: Juche is indeed central to our leadership—it’s about our people standing on their own without external influence. You say there are commonalities, but how do you reconcile your vision of peace and faith with a system that prizes absolute independence and control?

Rev. Moon: That’s an important question, Chairman Kim. Juche and my philosophy may seem different on the surface, but both emphasize the strength and dignity of the people. In North Korea, you focus on independence, and I respect that deeply. What I propose is that peace doesn’t have to mean dependence. Instead, it can be a form of strength—knowing that your nation is secure enough, both ideologically and materially, to engage with the world without losing itself. Faith, in this sense, provides the inner strength to lead with compassion and vision, while maintaining control over your nation's destiny.

Kim Jong Un: That’s an interesting way to frame it. You’re suggesting that faith and ideology, even though different, can coexist if they both serve the goal of national strength. How do you envision a leadership that embraces such an approach without diluting its core principles?

Rev. Moon: It begins with a recognition that leadership is not just about power or control, but about service to the people. Whether guided by Juche or faith, the purpose of leadership is to uplift the nation, ensure its prosperity, and protect its future. By embracing a broader vision that includes peace and reconciliation, you don't dilute your principles; you strengthen them by showing that North Korea can lead the world in ways beyond military might. Faith and ideology are tools—when used wisely, they inspire people to follow with conviction and trust in their leader’s vision for the future.

Kim Jong Un: Service to the people is indeed a key part of our leadership, but there’s always a fine line between serving the people and ensuring the system’s strength. How would you propose that leaders balance personal beliefs and the broader ideological goals of the state?

Rev. Moon: The balance comes from understanding that leadership is a calling. Personal faith or beliefs can guide a leader’s moral compass, but they should always be aligned with the needs of the nation. For example, in my life, my faith led me to pursue reconciliation with nations that were once enemies—because I believed that peace was the highest service I could offer to the world. In North Korea’s case, the ideology of self-reliance is a strength, but it doesn’t have to conflict with peace efforts. A leader can pursue both—strengthening the nation from within while extending a hand of peace externally. It’s not about compromising your ideals, but about expanding them to serve the larger goal of national prosperity.

Kim Jong Un: So, you believe that peace efforts can coexist with maintaining our strong ideological foundation. But what about the skepticism from my people? They have grown up with a very clear understanding of our system’s goals. How do we shift perspectives without losing our grip on what makes us unique?

Rev. Moon: Chairman Kim, shifting perspectives is never easy, but it can be done gradually, with care. By framing peace as an extension of Juche—an effort to protect and enhance the independence of the nation—you show that these initiatives are not departures from your values, but natural progressions. It’s about positioning peace not as weakness, but as the ultimate strength. Your people look to you for leadership, and if they see that you are pursuing peace to secure the future of the nation, while maintaining North Korea’s core principles, they will follow.

Kim Jong Un: You’re suggesting that peace can be a tool for furthering our independence, rather than threatening it. I’ve always seen faith as a personal matter, but perhaps it can inform how I lead without conflicting with our state ideology. It’s a fine balance, but one worth considering if it strengthens the country in the long run.

Rev. Moon: Precisely, Chairman Kim. Faith and ideology are both about serving a higher purpose, whether that’s a divine calling or the well-being of a nation. By balancing them, you ensure that North Korea’s future is one of strength and prosperity, where independence is not compromised, but enhanced. Leadership requires wisdom, and you have the ability to guide North Korea on a path that embraces both its principles and the possibilities of peace.

Short Bios:

Rev. Sun Myung Moon: A religious leader and founder of the Unification movement, Rev. Moon was known for his efforts to foster global peace, including engaging with world leaders like Mikhail Gorbachev and Kim Il-sung. His vision of peace and reconciliation focused on overcoming ideological divisions through spiritual leadership and diplomacy, particularly on the Korean Peninsula.

Kim Jong Un: As the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong Un has maintained the legacy of his family’s rule while navigating global tensions, particularly regarding nuclear disarmament. Known for his firm grip on power, Kim has engaged in international diplomacy but remains focused on preserving North Korea's sovereignty and self-reliance.