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Hello, everyone! We’ve got something really special today—an imaginary conversation featuring some of the most brilliant minds in personal finance.
Picture this: Robert Kiyosaki, the author of Rich Dad’s Increase Your Financial IQ, Dave Ramsey, famous for The Total Money Makeover, and Morgan Housel from The Psychology of Money, all sitting down together. And that’s not all—we also have Vicki Robin, who changed how we think about money with Your Money or Your Life, Thomas J. Stanley from The Millionaire Next Door, and Tori Dunlap, empowering women everywhere through Financial Feminist.
But this is just the start. We’ve got even more speakers joining later to discuss topics like leveraging risks, investing, and long-term financial freedom. Together, they’ll share their wisdom on everything from mastering financial acumen to smart investing and building wealth.
So sit tight—you’ll leave this conversation ready to take control of your financial future!
Developing Financial Acumen
Nick Sasaki:
“Welcome, everyone! Today, we’re diving into financial acumen and how each of you, in your own way, encourages people to sharpen their understanding of money. Let’s start with you, Robert. You’ve always said that financial education is the real key to building wealth, not simply earning more. Can you expand on that?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Thanks, Nick. Yes, I’ve always believed that no matter how much you make, it’s about what you keep and how you manage it. Financial education is what helps you recognize opportunities. Many people work hard but remain stuck because they don’t understand how money works. It’s not just about earning; it’s about learning to grow your wealth, protect it, and make it work for you.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a great point. Dave, you emphasize something similar, especially when it comes to debt and money management. How do you see financial education fitting into this?”
Dave Ramsey:
“Robert’s right. I’m a firm believer that getting control of your money through education is key. In The Total Money Makeover, I lay out the steps to financial peace, which starts with getting out of debt and building an emergency fund. But beyond that, you need to understand the long-term game. If you don’t educate yourself on how to manage your income and investments, you’re always going to be playing catch-up.”
Morgan Housel:
“What I like about both Robert and Dave’s approach is that they focus on long-term habits. But what I emphasize in The Psychology of Money is how our emotions and behaviors drive financial decisions. It’s not just about knowing the math or learning the principles; it’s about understanding why we act the way we do with money. The smartest person in the room can still make foolish decisions because finance is so tied to human behavior. Education must also include understanding yourself.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s fascinating. Vicki, in Your Money or Your Life, you take a slightly different angle by talking about the relationship between money and life energy. How does that play into financial education?”
Vicki Robin:
“Yes, Nick. I think education needs to include a bigger picture. In my book, I encourage people to look at how they trade their life energy—their time—for money. Financial education isn’t just about growing money, but about understanding how money fits into your values and your life. Are you working for money, or is your money working for you to live the life you want? When people understand this balance, they make better decisions.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a unique perspective. So it seems we’re all on the same page that financial education is not just learning the numbers, but understanding how we behave and how money fits into our lives. Let’s go a bit deeper. Robert, what’s one thing you think people misunderstand about financial education?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“People think financial education is only for the rich or those in business. But it’s for everyone. The school system doesn’t teach us how to manage money, so it’s something everyone has to learn on their own. The earlier you start educating yourself, the better. Understanding assets, liabilities, and cash flow applies whether you’re a business owner or just trying to manage a household budget.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Dave, would you agree?”
Dave Ramsey:
“Absolutely. One of the things I stress is that financial education is a lifelong process. Just like Robert said, it’s for everyone—whether you’re deep in debt or trying to build wealth. The sooner you stop relying on luck or hoping someone else will fix your problems, and instead take control through education, the faster you’ll see results.”
Morgan Housel:
“I’d add that people also think financial education is about complexity—learning complex financial products or strategies. But the truth is, the simpler your approach, the more effective it often is. Most of the principles that lead to wealth-building are simple—live below your means, invest consistently, and stay patient. It’s about mastering the basics, not over-complicating them.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Vicki, would you say that simplicity is part of what you teach as well?”
Vicki Robin:
“Definitely. One of the core principles in Your Money or Your Life is about simplifying your relationship with money. We teach people to track every dollar that comes in and goes out—not to be obsessive, but to develop a clear understanding of where their energy is going. When people simplify their finances, they feel more in control and can make better decisions.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a lot of valuable insight. To wrap up, what’s one piece of advice each of you would give to someone looking to boost their financial acumen today?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Start learning about assets and liabilities. Learn how to make your money work for you. Financial freedom comes from understanding how to build and protect wealth.”
Dave Ramsey:
“Get out of debt. The quickest way to win with money is to stop giving it all away to creditors. Focus on controlling your spending and building an emergency fund.”
Morgan Housel:
“Understand your behavior. Why do you make the decisions you do with money? That’s the key to long-term success.”
Vicki Robin:
“Track your money. When you can see where every dollar goes, you gain clarity, and with clarity comes power.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Fantastic advice from all of you. Thanks for joining me today. Financial acumen isn’t just for the wealthy—it’s for anyone who wants to live a life of freedom and control over their finances.”
Mastering Financial Management
Nick Sasaki:
“Welcome back, everyone. Today, we’ll be discussing the importance of managing income, expenses, and taxes, which are all essential to building financial security. Robert, let’s start with you. You’ve emphasized the need for people to understand that income isn’t enough to build wealth—it's about how you manage what you make. Could you elaborate on that?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Absolutely, Nick. Many people think that if they just make more money, they’ll be financially secure, but that’s not the case. You can earn a six-figure income and still be broke if you don’t manage your expenses and understand taxes. The key is to focus on what you keep and how you protect your money. This means knowing how to reduce tax liabilities and ensuring your income isn’t being eaten up by unnecessary expenses.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a great point. David, in Smart Couples Finish Rich, you talk a lot about managing shared expenses and planning for the future. How does that connect to managing income effectively?”
David Bach:
“Well, managing income effectively is about having a plan for every dollar. Whether you’re managing your own income or combining finances with a partner, you need to know exactly where your money is going. In my book, I emphasize the importance of automating savings and making sure that a portion of your income is always being directed toward long-term financial goals. It’s not just about what you earn, but how you allocate that income across expenses, savings, and investments.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Beth, your book Get a Financial Life is aimed at younger adults, and it covers everything from budgeting to taxes. How important is understanding taxes for managing income and expenses?”
Beth Kobliner:
“Understanding taxes is absolutely critical. Many young adults don’t realize how much of their income is going to taxes, or how they can take advantage of tax breaks and deductions. It’s not just about filing your taxes once a year—it’s about planning ahead and making sure that throughout the year, you’re maximizing your income by minimizing your tax liability. Knowing how to manage taxes can make a significant difference in your overall financial health.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Great points from all of you. Robert, you’ve spoken about how the rich use taxes to their advantage, while most people don’t. Can you explain what you mean by that?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Sure, Nick. The rich understand how to use the tax code to their benefit. For example, they create businesses or invest in assets that allow them to take advantage of deductions, credits, and other tax-saving strategies. Most people, on the other hand, are employees who pay the highest tax rates. Understanding taxes and structuring your income in a tax-efficient way is crucial for keeping more of what you earn.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Beth, what would you advise for someone just starting out, who may not have a lot of income yet but wants to be smart about managing their money and taxes?”
Beth Kobliner:
“I’d tell them to start by getting a clear picture of their finances—know what your income is, what your expenses are, and how taxes affect your take-home pay. From there, set up a budget that includes saving for emergencies and investing for the future. Even if you’re just starting out, taking small steps to understand your tax situation and reducing unnecessary expenses can have a big impact later on.”
Nick Sasaki:
“David, would you say automating your savings helps with managing expenses more effectively?”
David Bach:
“Definitely. Automating your savings makes it a no-brainer. When you set it up to automatically take a portion of your income and direct it into savings or investments, you’re ensuring that you’re always paying yourself first. It’s one of the easiest ways to make sure that your expenses don’t get out of control because you’re prioritizing your financial goals.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Excellent advice. So, to sum up, it seems like understanding how income, expenses, and taxes interact is key to making the most of what you earn. Any final thoughts?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Always focus on growing your assets and keeping your expenses in check. The less you spend and the more you understand taxes, the more wealth you can build.”
David Bach:
“Make a plan and stick to it. Whether it's budgeting or saving for the future, automating your finances can help you stay on track.”
Beth Kobliner:
“Learn about taxes as early as possible. The more you know, the more you can save.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Thanks for the insights, everyone. It’s clear that mastering these basics is essential to financial success.”
Investing and Growing Wealth
Nick Sasaki:
“Welcome back, everyone. Today’s topic is all about investing and growing wealth. Robert, you’ve always encouraged people to focus on building assets and making their money work for them. Can you explain why investing is key to financial freedom?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Sure, Nick. The biggest mistake people make is working hard for money without understanding that money can work for them. In Rich Dad Poor Dad, I emphasize the importance of investing in assets—things that put money in your pocket, like real estate, stocks, or businesses. If you're only working for a paycheck, you’re never going to get ahead. It's by investing that you grow your wealth and achieve financial freedom.”
Nick Sasaki:
“J.L., your book The Simple Path to Wealth highlights the importance of simplicity in investing, especially through index funds. How does your approach connect to what Robert is saying about growing wealth?”
J.L. Collins:
“I agree with Robert that you need to make your money work for you, but I advocate for a simple, low-cost strategy. For most people, investing in low-cost index funds is the easiest and most reliable way to grow wealth over time. Index funds allow you to invest in the market as a whole, which reduces risk compared to picking individual stocks. It’s not about trying to beat the market—it’s about participating in it consistently.”
Nick Sasaki:
“John, you’re known for founding Vanguard and popularizing index funds. How does The Little Book of Common Sense Investing build on this concept?”
John C. Bogle:
“In The Little Book of Common Sense Investing, I explain why simplicity and patience are key. Most investors try to outsmart the market, but the data shows that very few succeed in the long run. The best approach is to invest in low-cost index funds, which track the broader market. Over time, the market grows, and so will your wealth. The idea is to keep your costs low and stay the course, allowing compound interest to do the heavy lifting.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a great point. Robert, would you say that investing in index funds aligns with your approach to growing wealth through assets?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Yes and no. I believe index funds are a good starting point for people who don’t have the time or desire to actively manage their investments. However, I prefer more active investing in real estate or businesses because it offers greater control and potentially higher returns. But for people just starting out, J.L. and John’s advice on index funds is a safe and smart way to build wealth.”
Nick Sasaki:
“J.L., why do you recommend keeping it simple rather than exploring more active investing strategies?”
J.L. Collins:
“Because most people don’t have the expertise or time to manage real estate or businesses effectively. Index funds allow you to grow your wealth with minimal effort and lower risk. I’m all for owning real estate or running a business if you know what you’re doing, but for the average person, simplicity is the best approach. It removes the stress and emotion from investing.”
John C. Bogle:
“I agree with J.L. Active investing, whether in real estate or the stock market, requires a level of expertise that most people don’t have. By investing in low-cost index funds, you’re essentially betting on the long-term growth of the entire economy. It’s a proven strategy for most investors.”
Nick Sasaki:
“So we have two approaches here—one that advocates for simplicity through index funds, and one that encourages more active investing in assets like real estate. Robert, how do you reconcile the two strategies?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“It depends on the person. If someone is willing to learn and take control of their investments, active investing can provide more opportunities. But if you’re not ready for that, start with index funds as J.L. and John suggest. The key is to get your money working for you in any way you can.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Excellent. So, to wrap up, it seems the common ground here is the importance of investing to grow wealth, whether you take a simple or active approach. Any final thoughts?”
John C. Bogle:
“Stick to the basics, keep your costs low, and stay invested for the long haul.”
J.L. Collins:
“Don’t overcomplicate it. Invest consistently in index funds and let time do the rest.”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Remember, wealth comes from building assets, so find the investment strategy that works for you and stick with it.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Thanks, everyone. It’s clear that no matter how you invest, the goal is to get started and let your money grow.”
Leverage and Risk Management
Nick Sasaki:
“Welcome, everyone! Today, we’re talking about leverage and managing risks when building wealth. Robert, you’ve often discussed the importance of using other people’s money to grow wealth, whether through debt or investments. Can you share why leverage is key?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Sure, Nick. Leverage allows you to use a small amount of your own money and borrow the rest to acquire larger assets, whether it's real estate or businesses. The idea is that by using debt strategically, you can control assets worth much more than what you initially put in. If done wisely, it amplifies your returns, but it also increases risk. That’s why education on managing leverage is crucial.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Ramit, in I Will Teach You to Be Rich, you talk a lot about smart spending and automating savings. Do you see leverage as a good tool for everyday investors?”
Ramit Sethi:
“Leverage can be useful, but I always advise people to master the basics first—managing their spending, automating savings, and understanding their risk tolerance. While Robert’s approach works for people comfortable with managing large risks, the average person needs to be careful with debt. My approach focuses on automating smart financial decisions, like investing in low-cost funds, before thinking about using leverage.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a more conservative approach. George, your book The Richest Man in Babylon focuses on timeless principles for building wealth. How do you view the use of leverage?”
George S. Clason:
“In The Richest Man in Babylon, I teach that caution is key. Wealth should be built gradually, using simple principles like saving and investing wisely. While I understand the idea of leverage, I advise against taking on unnecessary risks. Instead, I encourage people to make their money work for them by seeking safe and secure investments that compound over time.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Robert, you advocate for using leverage to grow wealth quickly, while George takes a more cautious approach. How do you balance these perspectives?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“It all depends on the individual. Leverage can accelerate your path to wealth, but it also increases your exposure to risk. The key is understanding the risks and having a solid plan to manage them. I don’t believe in shying away from risk; I believe in managing it. The biggest risk is not taking any risks at all.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Ramit, you’ve said that personal finance should be automated and simplified. How do you view risk management for someone who’s just starting out?”
Ramit Sethi:
“For beginners, I recommend focusing on controlling what you can. Set up automated investments, have an emergency fund, and don’t take on more debt than you can handle. Once you’ve built a solid financial foundation, then you can start exploring more advanced strategies, but you need to minimize risk upfront. Avoid debt unless it’s absolutely necessary, and make sure you’re always in control of your financial situation.”
Nick Sasaki:
“George, would you agree with that approach?”
George S. Clason:
“Absolutely. I believe that wealth is built on the foundation of sound financial habits. While leverage can be tempting, it’s far better to be patient and let your money grow steadily. The principle of saving a portion of your income and investing it wisely has been around for centuries, and it remains one of the safest ways to build wealth without undue risk.”
Nick Sasaki:
“So we have different views on leverage and risk here—Robert encourages its use for faster wealth-building, while Ramit and George suggest caution and gradual growth. Robert, what would you say to someone who’s hesitant to use leverage because of the risks?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“I’d say that every strategy has risks. The key is to educate yourself and know how to mitigate them. If you understand how to use debt strategically and have a solid plan, the rewards can far outweigh the risks. But you need to be smart about it. Don’t borrow money for things that don’t generate cash flow.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Ramit, for someone who’s ready to take on more risk, how should they approach leverage?”
Ramit Sethi:
“If someone’s ready, they should start small and always have a safety net. Make sure your investments can cover the cost of any debt you take on. But even then, I would say keep your finances automated and simple. Don’t let the temptation of leverage derail your long-term financial goals.”
Nick Sasaki:
“George, any last thoughts on how to build wealth without unnecessary risks?”
George S. Clason:
“Slow and steady wins the race. Be patient, invest wisely, and never take on debt without a clear path to repaying it. The principles of wealth-building haven’t changed—they’re as relevant today as they were in ancient Babylon.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Thank you all. It seems that while leverage can accelerate wealth-building, it must be handled with caution. Understanding your personal risk tolerance and having a plan are crucial.”
Achieving Long-Term Wealth and Financial Freedom
Nick Sasaki:
“Welcome, everyone! Today’s topic is all about achieving long-term wealth and financial freedom. Robert, in your book Rich Dad Poor Dad, you talk a lot about creating financial freedom by building assets that generate income. Can you explain why focusing on assets is so crucial for long-term wealth?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Thanks, Nick. The most important lesson I learned is that financial freedom comes from building and controlling assets that generate passive income. This could be real estate, stocks, businesses, or intellectual property. The problem with relying on a paycheck alone is that it stops when you stop working. But when you build assets, they continue to work for you, generating income even when you’re not actively involved. That’s the path to long-term wealth.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That makes sense. Tori, in Financial Feminist, you focus on empowering women to take control of their finances and build wealth. How does your approach to long-term wealth differ or align with Robert’s?”
Tori Dunlap:
“It aligns in many ways. Like Robert, I believe in building financial independence through smart money management, but I emphasize a more accessible approach. In Financial Feminist, I focus on making financial freedom achievable for everyone, especially women who have been historically excluded from wealth-building opportunities. It’s about breaking down the barriers and showing people that you don’t need to be wealthy to start—you can begin by paying off debt, saving, and investing in simple assets like index funds. The goal is to create a future where your financial security isn’t dependent on anyone else.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Thomas, your book The Millionaire Next Door focuses on the everyday habits of wealthy individuals, many of whom don’t flaunt their wealth. How does that tie into the idea of long-term financial freedom?”
Thomas J. Stanley:
“What I found in my research is that most millionaires don’t live flashy lifestyles. They live below their means, save diligently, and invest consistently. They focus on accumulating wealth over time rather than spending it. These habits—frugality, consistent saving, and investing—are the keys to long-term wealth. It’s not about how much you make, but how much you keep and grow over time. True financial freedom comes from maintaining control over your finances, not by increasing your spending.”
Nick Sasaki:
“That’s a great point. Robert, how would you compare this more conservative approach of saving and frugality with your more aggressive focus on assets and investing?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Both approaches have their place. Saving and living below your means are great starting points, but to really achieve financial freedom, you need to think bigger. Yes, you should save, but you also need to invest that money into assets that generate cash flow. If you’re just saving and not investing, your money isn’t growing as fast as it could be. The key is to balance saving with active investing in income-producing assets.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Tori, your approach includes both saving and investing. How do you help people, especially women, find that balance?”
Tori Dunlap:
“I always tell people that it’s not about extremes—it’s about balance. You need an emergency fund, but you also need to invest. In Financial Feminist, I emphasize starting small—whether that’s saving a little from each paycheck or setting up automated investments in a retirement account. It’s about building those habits and getting comfortable with managing your own money. Once you’ve got the basics down, you can start exploring other opportunities like investing in real estate or entrepreneurship, but the foundation is key.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Thomas, based on your research, what’s one common misconception people have about millionaires and financial freedom?”
Thomas J. Stanley:
“The biggest misconception is that millionaires live extravagant lives and that wealth is all about how much you earn. In reality, most millionaires live modestly, drive used cars, and focus on financial independence rather than material wealth. They’re not focused on showing off their success but on maintaining it over the long term. The habits that lead to wealth—like living below your means and investing wisely—are far more important than a high income.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Robert, how do you advise people to overcome the temptation to overspend when their income starts increasing?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“I tell people to focus on building assets first. When your income increases, instead of upgrading your lifestyle, upgrade your investments. Put that extra money into things that will generate more income for you, whether it’s stocks, real estate, or even starting a side business. If you can reinvest your profits instead of spending them, that’s how you really start to compound your wealth and achieve financial freedom.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Tori, what’s your advice for people just starting on their financial journey and aiming for long-term wealth?”
Tori Dunlap:
“Start where you are. Don’t feel like you need to have everything figured out immediately. Begin with small, consistent steps—whether that’s paying off debt, building an emergency fund, or starting to invest in a retirement account. It’s the consistency over time that builds long-term wealth. And remember, financial freedom isn’t just about having money—it’s about having options and control over your life.”
Nick Sasaki:
“To wrap up, any final thoughts on what it takes to achieve long-term wealth and financial freedom?”
Robert Kiyosaki:
“Focus on building assets and let your money work for you. The path to financial freedom is paved by your investments.”
Tori Dunlap:
“Start small, be consistent, and don’t be afraid to take control of your financial future. Financial freedom is within reach for everyone.”
Thomas J. Stanley:
“Live below your means, save consistently, and invest wisely. Those are the habits that lead to long-term wealth.”
Nick Sasaki:
“Thank you all for your insights. It’s clear that achieving financial freedom is a combination of smart saving, investing, and making decisions that align with your long-term goals.”
Short Bios:
Robert Kiyosaki is a renowned entrepreneur and author, best known for his book Rich Dad Poor Dad, which challenges traditional views on money. He advocates for financial education and emphasizes building wealth through real estate, businesses, and financial literacy, helping millions worldwide rethink their approach to personal finance.
Dave Ramsey is a financial expert, radio host, and best-selling author of The Total Money Makeover. He is known for his straightforward approach to debt elimination and personal finance, helping individuals take control of their money and achieve financial peace through practical, step-by-step plans.
Morgan Housel is a financial writer and author of The Psychology of Money. He provides insights into how emotions and behaviors drive financial decisions. Housel's work focuses on understanding how human psychology affects the way we think about and manage money, offering a fresh perspective on personal finance.
Vicki Robin is a social innovator, speaker, and co-author of the influential book Your Money or Your Life. She is a pioneer in the financial independence movement, teaching people how to align their money with their values to live a more meaningful and intentional life while achieving financial independence.
Thomas J. Stanley was a respected researcher and co-author of The Millionaire Next Door, a book that unveils the habits and behaviors of everyday millionaires. His work focuses on debunking myths about wealth, showing that most millionaires achieve financial independence through frugality, saving, and smart investing.
Tori Dunlap is the founder of Her First $100K and author of Financial Feminist. She is a personal finance educator who advocates for women's financial empowerment, teaching them how to invest, save, and break down the financial barriers women often face in society.
J.L. Collins is the author of The Simple Path to Wealth, where he advocates for investing in low-cost index funds as a straightforward, reliable way to grow wealth. He simplifies the complexities of investing and provides readers with a clear path to financial independence.
John C. Bogle was the founder of Vanguard and author of The Little Book of Common Sense Investing. He revolutionized the investment world by creating the first index fund and championed low-cost, long-term investing strategies that benefit everyday investors. His work emphasizes the power of compounding and minimizing fees to achieve long-term wealth.
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