Trump vs Musk: Can Disruption Make a Deal?

David Rubenstein:  New York, 2025. It’s not every day two of the most polarizing and powerful men in modern history sit down to talk — not over press releases or tweets, but face to face. One reshaped politics with bold promises and iron will. The other is reshaping space, energy, and transportation with code, factories, and relentless ambition. Donald Trump and Elon Musk are, by any measure, disruptors.

They don’t always agree — in fact, they rarely do. But they share something rare: the ability to shift the world with a sentence, a decision, or a vision. And so I asked: could these two men — different in tone, but united by results — find common ground on the most pressing issues of our time?

Not as politicians or tycoons. But as problem-solvers.

What follows is not a debate. It’s a negotiation. Five topics. Five opportunities. Two voices that could shape the next decade — if they chose to.

 (Note: This is an imaginary conversation, a creative exploration of an idea, and not a real speech or event.)

Topic 1: EV Jobs vs. Oil Jobs — Who Drives the American Economy?

[Opening Scene: Manhattan boardroom, early evening. The skyline flickers in golden light. David Rubenstein sits calmly at the center of a sleek oak table. Trump is dressed in a navy suit with a red tie. Musk wears a black t-shirt under a blazer. The air is respectful, but charged.]

❓David Rubenstein:

Gentlemen, thank you both for being here. Let’s get right to it.

First question — Where do you believe the majority of American jobs should come from in the next 10 years: clean energy or traditional energy?

Elon Musk:
Clean energy, no question. The global transition is inevitable — we can lead it or get left behind. EVs, solar, battery manufacturing — these are the factories of the future. The faster we scale, the more we employ. We're not just building cars — we're building a new energy economy.

Donald Trump:
We need both, but let’s be real: oil and gas keep America running. Trucks, planes, ships — they don’t run on windmills. I brought energy independence under control. If we abandon oil, we lose jobs and power. EVs are fine — but not if they cost us America’s backbone.

❓David Rubenstein:

Thank you. Second question — What’s your message to oil state workers who fear losing their livelihoods to electric vehicles and renewables?

Donald Trump:
I’ll protect your jobs. Simple. You don’t need to learn how to code or build solar panels. We’ll drill smart, we’ll drill clean, and we’ll drill American. The left wants to shut you down. I don’t. And neither should Elon, if he wants to keep his factories running on cheap energy.

Elon Musk:
My message is: we need you. These are skilled, tough, hardworking people. We’re opening gigafactories in Texas, Nevada — red states. We’re hiring oil rig engineers as robotics experts. This is not about replacing you. It’s about retooling for something bigger.

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s move to question three — Is there a way to grow both oil and EV sectors at the same time without sending mixed signals to markets and consumers?

Elon Musk:
Yes — short-term oil, long-term electric. Think of it like dial-up and broadband. You don’t kill the old before the new is ready. We need fossil fuels right now to build the clean infrastructure of tomorrow. But let’s not lie to ourselves — one is dying, the other is rising.

Donald Trump:
We can walk and chew gum. We’ll keep oil strong and support innovation — but not through mandates or picking winners. No one should be forced to buy electric. Build the best product and let the market decide. I like Tesla. But I hate government handouts.

❓David Rubenstein:

Fourth question — What would a fair EV policy look like in a Trump administration that both of you could agree on?

Donald Trump:
No mandates. No subsidies. But maybe we give tax cuts for American manufacturing — all manufacturing, not just green stuff. You want to build Teslas here, hire American? Great. But don’t expect Washington to play favorites.

Elon Musk:
I’d take that deal. Level the field. But we do need policy to accelerate change. Maybe a sunset clause — EV credits that phase out as adoption hits certain milestones. Let’s reward outcomes, not intentions. And yeah, I’ll build every car in the U.S. if the math works.

❓David Rubenstein:

Final question — You both care about legacy. What legacy do you want to leave behind on energy?

Elon Musk:
That I helped humanity avoid climate disaster and proved sustainability could be profitable. I want kids to grow up breathing clean air and dreaming of Mars. That’s the long game. I want to be useful — and build stuff that matters.

Donald Trump:
That I kept America number one. Energy is strength. You can’t run a country on theory. We need to be dominant — oil, gas, nuclear, solar, whatever works. I’ll leave behind an America that stands on its own two feet — rich, independent, and feared by our enemies.

[David Rubenstein leans back, eyes scanning the two titans.]

David Rubenstein:
Thank you, both. Candid answers. Different visions. But perhaps… not incompatible. We’ll see where this goes.

Topic 2: The Deal on the Table — Can EV Credits Survive a Red Government?

[Scene resumes in the same boardroom. The light has dimmed slightly as sunset deepens outside the window. David Rubenstein glances at a new page in his notebook, his tone sharpening slightly as he turns the conversation toward legislation.]

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s dive into policy.
First question — Elon, you've called the removal of EV tax credits “catastrophic.” Mr. Trump, you call them “wasteful.” Why should the American taxpayer care about this debate at all?

Donald Trump:
Because it’s their money. Why should someone in West Virginia pay for a rich guy in California to buy a Tesla? If the car’s that good, it doesn’t need a handout. I’m for innovation — but not welfare for the wealthy. Let the market choose the winner, not Washington.

Elon Musk:
It’s not a handout — it’s an investment. Tax credits jumpstart adoption, which drives volume, which drops prices. That’s how every breakthrough works. You want affordable EVs for everyone? The credit is the bridge. Otherwise, China wins that race.

❓David Rubenstein:

Understood.
Second question — Let’s say there’s no tax credit. What’s your backup plan, Elon? And Mr. Trump, would you support any EV policy under certain terms?

Elon Musk:
We’d adapt. We always do. But losing the credit means slower adoption, fewer U.S. factories, and jobs heading to Asia. My plan? Build better, cheaper EVs — faster. But it’s a loss for the country, not just Tesla. Policy should accelerate the future, not punish it.

Donald Trump:
I’d support an EV policy that’s pro-worker, pro-manufacturing, and pro-America. How about no credit unless the car is built here, with U.S. steel, U.S. batteries, and no China ties? Then we talk. But it has to help the American worker first.

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s explore that.
Third question — Is there a middle ground you two could support — something like a performance-based or location-based credit?

Donald Trump:
Sure. Tie it to jobs. You want a credit? Prove it creates real American jobs. Not just engineers in Palo Alto, but welders in Ohio. And it better not be some loophole-ridden swamp bill. I don’t do green pork.

Elon Musk:
I’m game. Benchmark it to emissions avoided or local hiring ratios. But let’s be honest — if we keep playing short-term politics, we’ll lose to countries thinking in 50-year cycles. The future’s coming. I just don’t want it built in Beijing.

❓David Rubenstein:

That brings us here —
Fourth question — What role should government play in shaping the direction of the auto industry at all? Shouldn’t it just get out of the way?

Elon Musk:
In a perfect world, yes. But we’re not in a perfect world. China funds their EV industry. Europe protects theirs. If we pretend markets are pure, we lose. Smart government doesn’t pick winners — it builds highways, creates incentives, and lets the best rise.

Donald Trump:
I built roads and bridges too — real ones. Government should protect the country and get out of the boardroom. We shouldn’t be handing out candy. We should be building muscle. If EVs are the future, they’ll win on merit, not on subsidies.

❓David Rubenstein:

Final question for this round —
Would either of you be willing to make a public agreement — right now — for a 5-year EV plan that includes compromise from both sides?

Donald Trump:
Maybe. If it’s fair. If it’s made in America. No forced mandates. No globalist nonsense. You want my signature? Make it good for Michigan, not Davos. Then we’ll talk.

Elon Musk:
I’d sign it tonight — if it’s bold, clear, and future-focused. Let’s stop playing ping-pong with policy and actually build something that lasts. You want American greatness? Let’s power it with American electrons.

[David Rubenstein pauses, looks at both men. A faint smile.]

David Rubenstein:
Well… sounds like a handshake may not be far off. Not bad for round two.

Topic 3: Climate vs. Cash — Is There a Business Case for Sustainability?

[Scene: The boardroom now glows under soft ambient lights. A few aides quietly serve coffee. The tone is a bit warmer, but the tension remains beneath the surface. David Rubenstein straightens his papers, ready to dive into perhaps their biggest ideological divide.]

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s tackle the heart of it.
First question — Is climate change a genuine economic risk, or just a political talking point?

Elon Musk:
It’s the biggest economic risk of the 21st century — and the biggest opportunity. Climate disasters cost trillions. Clean energy creates jobs, drives innovation, and attracts investment. Ignoring it isn’t just reckless — it’s bad business.

Donald Trump:
I’m not a climate alarmist. I’m a jobs guy. If you tell people they can’t drive, heat their homes, or work because of some theory, they’ll vote you out. We need clean air and water — but we don’t wreck the economy chasing green fantasies. Smart, not panicked.

❓David Rubenstein:

Interesting contrast.
Second question — Elon, you’ve bet everything on sustainability. Mr. Trump, do you think that’s a wise business decision?

Donald Trump:
He’s a smart guy. Great businessman. But betting everything on one horse? Dangerous. We still need oil. We need options. You don’t win by going all-in on one thing — you hedge, you balance, you diversify.

Elon Musk:
It’s not a bet — it’s a direction. The cost curves are real. Solar, batteries, EVs — the economics are catching up. This isn’t charity. Tesla’s not a climate nonprofit. We’re profitable because we moved early, not despite it.

❓David Rubenstein:

Third question —
Can sustainability ever be truly profitable without policy support? Or is it always going to be expensive?

Elon Musk:
It's already profitable. The cost of solar has dropped 90% in 10 years. EVs are cheaper to maintain. Once scale hits, the economics win. Policy just speeds that up. If anything, fossil fuels are more subsidized than people realize.

Donald Trump:
Maybe one day. But today? It’s still expensive without help. And we’re in debt. We can’t afford fantasies. Let the free market work. If it’s cheaper and better, people will switch. If not, they won’t. Don’t shove it down their throats.

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s go deeper.
Fourth question — Should the government place a price on carbon to make the market reflect true environmental costs?

Donald Trump:
No way. That’s just a tax with a new name. It hits working Americans hardest. Prices go up. Factories leave. Jobs vanish. We’re not Europe. We win by being cheaper, not by punishing ourselves with carbon charts.

Elon Musk:
Actually, I support a carbon tax — if it’s revenue-neutral. Tax pollution, not productivity. Return that money to the people. It’s not about punishment — it’s about accuracy. Right now, polluting is free. That’s distortion, not capitalism.

❓David Rubenstein:

Final question —
If you two were to launch a “Sustainable America” initiative together, what would it look like?

Elon Musk:
A 10-year plan: scale battery production, upgrade the grid, transition trucking and shipping, and electrify rural infrastructure. Built in America, for America. Public-private partnership. I’d put my own money in — if there’s real follow-through.

Donald Trump:
I’d do it my way: Build pipelines and charging stations. Lower regulations. Bring back mining and rare earths — we’ll need them for batteries. And label every product “Powered in the USA.” You want sustainability? Make it patriotic. Make it profitable.

[David Rubenstein chuckles softly.]

David Rubenstein:
You both want sustainability. Just with different flags over the factory.

Topic 4: China, Chips, and Charging Stations — Who Wins the Infrastructure War?

[Scene: The room feels denser now. The conversation has moved from ideals to global stakes. A large digital map of global EV infrastructure flickers behind them. Rubenstein looks up, setting the tone.]

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s talk geopolitics.
First question — China is dominating the EV supply chain. How urgent is it for the U.S. to catch up, and how do we do it?

Donald Trump:
It’s very urgent. China’s playing the long game. They’re eating our lunch on batteries, minerals, even AI. We need to bring it all home: mining, chip fabs, rare earths. I’d slap tariffs, block hostile takeovers, and rebuild the industrial base — fast.

Elon Musk:
It’s existential. If we don’t localize supply chains, we’re vulnerable. One policy tweak from Beijing could cripple American EVs. We need mining reform, chip independence, and grid upgrades. The tech’s here — the will isn’t. Yet.

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s go to the foundation.
Second question — Who should lead America’s infrastructure strategy — government or private sector?

Elon Musk:
Both. Private sector builds faster, innovates better. But the government has to lay the groundwork — transmission lines, permitting, roads. It’s like the internet: the government built the pipes, companies brought the value. Same model applies.

Donald Trump:
Private sector. Government gets in the way more than it helps. But I’m okay with government clearing red tape — faster permits, fewer lawsuits. Get out of the way, then get out of the picture. I built more infrastructure than anyone — and I know the waste.

❓David Rubenstein:

Third question —
What’s your vision for American EV infrastructure — what should it look like by 2030?

Donald Trump:
You want EVs? Fine. But build charging stations like gas stations — fast, reliable, everywhere. I’d involve gas companies, not just tech bros. And don’t leave rural America behind. You can’t have a dead battery in Montana.

Elon Musk:
2030? We need 2 million charging ports, coast to coast. Urban, rural, highways. Plug in, charge fast, move on. But more than that — smart grids, solar-charging hubs, wireless charging R&D. Infrastructure is the circulatory system of the economy. Make it electric.

❓David Rubenstein:

Fourth question —
Do you believe China is playing fair in the global EV game? And how should the U.S. respond?

Elon Musk:
No, they’re not. They subsidize aggressively, block U.S. competitors, and control materials. But we shouldn’t just whine — we should outcompete. Play smarter, not dirtier. That means speed, efficiency, and building things people actually want to drive.

Donald Trump:
Of course they’re cheating. They’ve been doing it for 30 years. I’d tariff every EV part that touches China. You want to sell here? Build here. Compete like Americans — not Communist state puppets. I know their playbook — I wrote tariffs.

❓David Rubenstein:

Last question for this round —
What’s one bold infrastructure move you’d make today if you had full control?

Donald Trump:
Create a “Made in America Energy Corridor.” Pipelines, EV chargers, chip fabs, power lines — across the heartland. Fund it with redirected foreign aid. You want infrastructure? Start at home. Build it here.

Elon Musk:
Launch a National Electrification Project — like Eisenhower’s highways. Modernize the grid, universal charging access, battery recycling, smart metering. Not just for EVs — for every American home and business. Future-proof the country.

[Rubenstein leans in, folding his hands.]

David Rubenstein:
Well, gentlemen… one of you wants to build a corridor. The other wants to build a nervous system. Either way — it sounds like America would be under construction again.

Topic 5: Legacy and Power — Who Will Be Remembered as the Real Innovator?

[Scene: The city outside is now dark. Only the glow of the skyline and a soft light over the boardroom remains. A subtle shift has occurred. Less debate now—more reflection. David Rubenstein leans forward, voice steady.]

❓David Rubenstein:

Let’s end not with policy—but with vision.
First question — When people hear your name 50 years from now, what do you want them to associate it with?

Donald Trump:
Winning. America winning. I brought back jobs, rebuilt the military, stood up to China, and reshaped the courts. People said it couldn’t be done — but I did it. I want to be remembered as the leader who made America strong again. Permanently.

Elon Musk:
Human progress. That we reached Mars, drove on sunlight, and reimagined possibility. I want people to think: “That guy helped humanity move forward.” If I can do that — even a fraction — I’ll be proud.

❓David Rubenstein:

Thank you.
Second question — You’re both disruptors in your own way. What’s the difference between disruption that serves ego, and disruption that serves humanity?

Elon Musk:
It’s about intention. If you disrupt to get applause, that’s ego. If you disrupt to solve a problem no one else will touch, that’s service. Disruption without responsibility is just chaos. With purpose? It’s progress.

Donald Trump:
You call it ego, I call it leadership. You don’t change the world by asking nicely. You take hits, you keep going. I broke the old system because it was broken. And people thanked me for it. Sometimes the ego is the engine.

❓David Rubenstein:

Third question —
What’s one major regret or lesson learned in your career that shaped your current vision?

Donald Trump:
I trusted too many insiders early on. Washington’s filled with snakes. If I go back in, it’ll be scorched earth. No more career politicians. Only people who’ve actually built something.

Elon Musk:
I used to underestimate people’s emotional resistance to change. It’s not just about data or innovation — it’s about fear. I learned you have to inspire people, not just out-invent everyone.

❓David Rubenstein:

Fourth question —
What does “power” mean to you now, compared to what it meant when you were younger?

Elon Musk:
Power used to mean control. Now, it means responsibility. The more influence you have, the more ethical clarity you need. One tweet can move billions. That’s not power — that’s pressure. And it should be earned.

Donald Trump:
Power means leverage. Always has. But now I see it’s not just what you can do — it’s what you choose not to do. I’ve learned to be selective. Sometimes restraint is stronger than action. Not always. But sometimes.

❓David Rubenstein:

Final question —
If you two had to work together on one final project — the last chapter of your public lives — what would it be?

Donald Trump:
I’d build the American Innovation Bank. Fund factories, infrastructure, and moonshots. Private capital, public oversight. I’d put Elon on the board — as long as he promises not to tweet about me too much.

Elon Musk:
Deal. I’d create the Global Problem Solvers League. Climate, AI safety, education — rapid prototypes, no politics. Trump can negotiate the deals, I’ll build the tech. And we both get to put our names on the door.

[David Rubenstein lets the silence stretch for a moment. Then, quietly:]

David Rubenstein:
Strangely enough… I think you two would actually get it done.

Final Thoughts

By David Rubenstein

After five topics, I’m left with this observation: Elon Musk sees the future as a launchpad. Donald Trump sees it as a fortress. One wants to build what’s next. The other wants to protect what’s worked. And yet — neither is content with maintaining the status quo.

On electric vehicles, they argued. On China, they agreed. On legacy, they diverged — and respected each other for it.

What I saw were not two men bound by ideology, but by instinct — the instinct to lead, to push, to leave a mark. And while deals weren’t signed, seeds were planted.

Perhaps that’s all we can ask in a divided age: a room, a conversation, and a willingness — even grudging — to listen.

History isn’t built in perfect harmony. Sometimes it’s built in friction. But it’s always built by those who show up.

Short Bios:

Donald Trump
45th and 47th President of the United States, real estate developer, and media personality. Known for his populist platform, nationalist economic policies, and outspoken leadership style, Trump remains a dominant figure in Republican politics and U.S. cultural debates.

Elon Musk
CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, and xAI, and former head of the Department of Government Efficiency under the Trump administration. A tech entrepreneur known for bold innovation in electric vehicles, space exploration, and AI, Musk frequently challenges regulatory norms and conventional politics.

David Rubenstein
Co-founder of The Carlyle Group, philanthropist, and host of The David Rubenstein Show. Widely respected for his bipartisan diplomacy and economic insight, Rubenstein serves as a steady, neutral moderator in high-stakes policy and business conversations.