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Alright, everybody, buckle up because you’re about to witness one of the wildest conversations I’ve ever seen! Picture this: we’ve got the hilarious Mark Gungor, the man who literally wrote the book on treating people like monkeys—Treat Them Like Monkeys, to be exact. And joining him, we’ve got three of the funniest men on the planet: Conan O'Brien, Johnny Carson, and David Letterman. I mean, how could this not be a circus, right?
Now, I know what you’re thinking—'Nick, are they really about to tell us how to handle life’s chaos by embracing it like a monkey in a zoo?' And the answer is, yes, yes they are. And trust me, when these guys talk about chaos, they know what they’re talking about.
We’ve got Conan, who’s made a career out of turning live television disasters into pure comedy gold. Johnny Carson, the master of handling unpredictability with a cool head and a quick quip. And of course, David Letterman, who could turn even the most awkward moments into an unforgettable joke. And then there’s Mark—who’s telling us we should all just stop trying to control life and laugh our way through it. Honestly, I think he’s onto something!
So sit back, relax, and prepare for a masterclass on how to handle life’s unpredictability, delivered by four guys who have truly seen it all—monkey suits and all! Trust me, you’ll be laughing and nodding your head the whole way through. Let’s get started!
Embrace Irrationality and Unpredictability
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Alright, gentlemen, let’s kick this off by swinging into Mark’s brilliant philosophy: people act like monkeys, and instead of pulling our hair out—or what’s left of it, sorry David—we should just go with the flow. I mean, how often do we find ourselves thinking, ‘Why on earth would someone do that?’ And then realize, oh yeah, because humans are basically just sophisticated chimpanzees with better haircuts and a little too much caffeine. So, Mark, how do we survive this zoo of unpredictability without losing our minds? And let me ask the real question: Is there any hope, or should we all just keep bananas handy?”
Mark Gungor:
“Nick, you nailed it. People are unpredictable, emotional creatures, and yet we keep expecting them to be rational. That’s where all the frustration comes from! If you’re waiting for everyone to act logically, you’re going to be disappointed. So instead of getting upset when someone behaves irrationally, just roll with it—embrace the chaos! I like to say, ‘Stop being surprised by the circus, just enjoy the show.’ Once you stop expecting predictability, you stop getting frustrated.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Oh man, if that’s not the truest thing I’ve heard in a while! I think my entire career was built on the idea that people are gonna do weird stuff, and my job was just to point at it and go, ‘Well, that happened.’ I mean, I’ve had guests on my show who seemed like they were moments away from either setting something on fire or telling me about their alien abduction. You just gotta roll with it, baby. The weirdness is where the magic happens!”
Johnny Carson:
“Conan, I couldn’t agree more. Some of the most memorable moments on The Tonight Show were the ones we couldn’t plan. I’ll never forget when that animal handler brought out a cougar that decided it didn’t want to be on TV that night. It was chaos, but I didn’t fight it. You learn to work with the unpredictability. That’s why I always said, ‘Don’t force the funny, let it come to you.’ And Mark, what you’re saying applies to life in general—you can’t control people or situations, so you might as well sit back and enjoy the ride.”
David Letterman:
“Exactly! You know, one time on my show, we had a segment with a guy who claimed he could juggle chainsaws. Do you think he actually did it? Of course not. One of them ended up stuck in a wall. But the audience loved it, not because the act went as planned, but because it didn’t. That’s the thing—people tune in for the unexpected, not the scripted. And life’s the same way. If everything went according to plan, it’d be a snooze fest. I mean, come on, if you want predictability, watch golf. But if you want fun, embrace the monkey business.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“David, you’re absolutely right—people want chaos! I mean, I didn’t tune into your show to see everything go perfectly, I tuned in hoping to see you trying to stay calm while everything around you fell apart. And that’s basically life, right? Everyone’s trying to keep it together, and then BAM, life throws a pie in your face. So, Mark, is that the secret to staying sane? Just accept that you’re going to have pie in your face, metaphorically speaking? Or do we keep hoping that one day, somehow, people will stop acting like monkeys?”
Mark Gungor:
“Oh, there’s always going to be pie, Nick. It’s inevitable. The key is not taking it personally when it hits you. We spend so much energy trying to control how other people act, but here’s the truth—people are going to behave however they want, and sometimes that means being irrational, impulsive, or downright bizarre. So instead of being surprised or frustrated by it, just accept it as part of the human experience. When you expect the monkey business, you’re not caught off guard when it happens. You just laugh, shake it off, and keep going.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Mark, that’s exactly it. People are irrational, and the sooner you accept that, the more fun you’ll have. Honestly, I’d say some of the best moments in my life—and on my show—have come from the fact that people are just wildly unpredictable. You can’t script it. And honestly, if life were perfectly logical, it’d be boring as hell. I mean, who wants that? Give me the circus any day of the week!”
Johnny Carson:
“Absolutely, Conan. And I think we all know that embracing that unpredictability isn’t just a survival tactic—it’s where all the fun is. Life is too short to be spent trying to get everything perfect. Mark, your point about letting go of control really resonates with me. I’ve always felt that the best hosts, and honestly, the happiest people, are the ones who know when to step back and let the chaos happen.”
David Letterman:
“Exactly, Johnny. It’s like life is one long comedy sketch, but the punchlines are never where you expect them. The trick is not trying to control the punchline—just deliver your line and wait for whatever happens next. Sometimes you get applause, sometimes you get silence, and sometimes you get hit with a pie. Either way, it’s all part of the show.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Mark, sounds like these guys are saying that unpredictability is basically the bread and butter of their careers. So let me ask you this: for those of us who aren’t performing in front of millions of people every night, how do we bring this ‘let it roll’ mindset into our daily lives? How do we stop ourselves from losing it when, say, your coworker sends an email in Comic Sans or someone cuts you off in traffic?”
Mark Gungor:
“Great question, Nick. It’s all about managing your expectations. You can’t control how other people act, but you can control your response. Once you let go of the idea that people should act rationally, you stop being frustrated when they don’t. Whether it’s a work situation, family, or just dealing with random strangers, when you expect a little monkey business, you’re not thrown off when it happens. Instead of getting angry or stressed, you laugh, adapt, and move on. Life’s too short to take it all so seriously. You’ve got to enjoy the circus while you’re in it.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Well said, Mark. It’s like when someone cuts you off in traffic, and instead of flipping out, you just imagine they’re a chimpanzee in a sports car. It suddenly makes a lot more sense and becomes a lot funnier. Once you realize that everyone’s a bit of a monkey, the whole world becomes a comedy show.”
The Power of Humor and Patience
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“So, gentlemen, I’m guessing all of you are no strangers to the idea that humor can save you from some pretty rough situations. Whether it’s Mark’s ‘monkey moments’ or Conan’s nightly parade of weirdness, there’s something magical about humor that can turn disaster into gold. Mark, in Treat Them Like Monkeys, you talk about how humor isn’t just a tool for comedians—it’s something we all need to survive the emotional zoo of life. So, tell us—how do we use humor to tame the wild beasts around us without ending up in the cage ourselves?”
Mark Gungor:
“Great way to put it, Nick. Humor is a secret weapon—it diffuses tension, calms nerves, and reminds us not to take everything so seriously. When people are acting irrationally, humor can break the emotional spell. It’s like turning a tense moment into something lighter and more manageable. People tend to react emotionally because they’re stressed or frustrated, but humor creates a break in that emotional chain. Instead of spiraling into anger or conflict, you laugh, and suddenly the problem seems smaller.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Exactly, Mark! I feel like humor is the only thing that’s kept me sane—well, relatively sane—through years of hosting. When things are going haywire on live TV, you can either panic or you can laugh. Trust me, I’ve tried both, and laughter works much better. I’ve had guests completely derail segments, and instead of trying to pull things back on track, I’d just make a joke out of it. The audience loves it, the tension breaks, and suddenly, what could’ve been a disaster turns into a highlight.”
Johnny Carson:
“Oh, Conan, I’ve been there. I’ve had moments where a guest went completely off script, or even refused to talk! And you’re right—if you try to force it, it’s painful. But if you just lean into it and laugh, the audience laughs with you. It’s like saying, ‘Hey, we’re all in this crazy moment together.’ Humor connects people, especially when things are unpredictable.”
David Letterman:
“I’m with you guys on this. I think the thing about humor is that it makes the uncomfortable comfortable. I mean, no one wants to sit there in awkward silence when things go wrong, but if you throw a joke into the mix, suddenly everyone relaxes. It’s like a universal sigh of relief. Mark, I love how you frame humor as a way of being patient too—because when people act irrationally, if you laugh instead of getting angry, you’re actually practicing patience. It’s genius.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“David, I think you’re onto something there—humor and patience really are two sides of the same coin. It’s like when you’re waiting for someone to stop telling you about their 12-step skin care routine, and instead of screaming ‘Make it stop!’, you just crack a joke about their glow. So, Mark, is humor like some secret Zen hack for keeping your cool? Are you telling us that every time we’re about to lose it, we should just think of a punchline?”
Mark Gungor:
“In a way, yeah! Humor is a great way to maintain your patience because it changes your perspective. When you laugh at something, you’re not seeing it as a problem anymore—you’re seeing it as something manageable, maybe even ridiculous. Humor creates distance between you and the situation, which allows you to respond, not react. I always tell people, ‘Don’t take the bait.’ If someone’s acting irrationally, don’t let yourself get sucked into their emotional mess. Instead, find a way to laugh it off. You stay in control, and you keep your peace.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Oh yeah, you’ve gotta be the calm center of the storm. Even when everything around you is going bananas, if you can find the funny in it, you win. And honestly, some of my best material has come from moments where things just went completely sideways. There’s nothing like a good disaster to set up a perfect punchline. And when you’re laughing, it’s hard to get mad. It’s like, how can I be angry at this chaos when it’s giving me comedy gold?”
Johnny Carson:
“That’s true, Conan. I think the key is that humor gives you control over the situation. When you laugh, you’re not letting the irrational behavior of others dictate your mood. You’re staying above it. I always found that when you make people laugh, it changes the energy of the room. The tension melts away, and suddenly, everyone’s in on the joke.”
David Letterman:
“Humor is definitely a way to control the room, but it’s also a way to control yourself. I’ve had plenty of moments where I could’ve lost my temper, but making a joke about it instantly calmed me down. It’s like you’re tricking your brain into relaxing. Instead of letting frustration take over, you just make fun of it. And the best part is, once you’ve laughed at something, it’s hard to be angry about it afterward.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“So, what I’m hearing is that the next time my Wi-Fi drops in the middle of an important call, I shouldn’t scream and throw my router out the window. Instead, I should crack a joke about living in the Dark Ages and move on. Got it! But here’s my question, Mark: what if the humor doesn’t come naturally? I mean, some people are just wired to get mad instead of laughing it off. How do you teach someone to embrace humor in those tense, irrational moments?”
Mark Gungor:
“That’s a great point, Nick. Humor might not come naturally to everyone, but it can be learned. The trick is to practice seeing the funny side of things, even when they seem serious. Start by not taking yourself so seriously. When you can laugh at yourself, it becomes easier to laugh at the absurdity around you. And it doesn’t have to be a big joke—sometimes just smiling at a situation changes how you feel about it. Humor isn’t always about the punchline, it’s about the mindset. It’s about not letting life get the better of you.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Yeah, not everyone’s gonna have a stand-up routine ready for every situation, but even just a little bit of humor helps. Like, when something’s going wrong, you don’t have to come up with a joke, just step back and think, ‘This is kind of ridiculous, isn’t it?’ And then you can smile. It’s a start.”
Johnny Carson:
“Exactly. Sometimes just acknowledging the absurdity of the situation is enough to break the tension. You don’t have to be a comedian to find the humor in everyday life. It’s about being open to the idea that things don’t have to be perfect. Once you accept that, humor comes a lot more easily.”
David Letterman:
“And let’s face it, people are hilarious—especially when they’re being completely serious. When someone’s overreacting or being irrational, you don’t have to say a word. Just thinking to yourself, ‘Wow, this person is really committed to this meltdown’ can bring a smile to your face. And once you’re smiling, it’s a lot harder to get mad.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Alright, I think I’m starting to get it. So next time I’m stuck in traffic and someone cuts me off, instead of flipping out, I should imagine them as a monkey on a unicycle. Got it. I’ll either laugh, or the visual will be so ridiculous I won’t be able to think straight. Either way, crisis averted. Mark, thanks for the life hack!”
Focus on Your Reactions, Not Their Behavior
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Alright, let’s talk about something that I think most of us struggle with. You know when someone is acting so irrationally that you’re not sure if they’re auditioning for a reality TV show or just trying to ruin your day? Mark, you say the key isn’t to change their behavior, but to focus on how we react. I mean, let’s be honest—if people could just stop acting like, well, monkeys, life would be so much easier. But since that’s not happening anytime soon, how do we stop from turning into monkeys ourselves when others are losing it?”
Mark Gungor:
“You’re right, Nick. It would be great if everyone around us could just act rationally, but that’s not reality. And the truth is, we waste a lot of energy trying to change how others behave. What I tell people is this: You can’t control what others do, but you can always control your reaction. The moment you stop letting their behavior dictate your emotions, you’ve already won half the battle.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Man, if I had a nickel for every time someone acted crazy on my show, I’d be buying a yacht right now. You can’t control people, but you can control whether or not you let it get under your skin. I’ve had guests walk on set and do the strangest things—like, I’m not even sure if they knew they were on TV. But instead of trying to control the situation, I just rolled with it. People think it’s part of the show, but really, I just didn’t want to lose my mind!”
Johnny Carson:
“That’s the secret, Conan. When you let someone else’s behavior affect your mood, you’re giving them control over you. I learned early on in my career that trying to control the guests or the audience was a losing battle. I’d have people who came on the show and acted like they were from another planet, but instead of trying to rein them in, I’d focus on staying calm, keeping my own reactions under control. That way, I stayed in charge of the room, even if they were bouncing off the walls.”
David Letterman:
“Absolutely. It’s like when you’re dealing with a toddler having a meltdown in a grocery store. You can’t reason with them. But if you start flipping out too, you’re just feeding the chaos. The same goes for adults acting irrationally—it’s contagious! So, Mark, I love that you focus on keeping your cool instead of trying to fix other people. The only thing you can really control in a situation is how you respond to it.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Right! It’s like when someone is losing it at a customer service counter. You’ve got the person yelling about how their sandwich wasn’t made with the right kind of mustard, and the poor employee is just standing there in shock. It’s tempting to step in and be like, ‘Seriously, it’s mustard,’ but instead of getting sucked into their drama, you suggest just keeping your cool. So, Mark, how do we stay calm when the person in front of us is about to combust over, let’s say, condiments?”
Mark Gungor:
“Great example, Nick. The first step is realizing that their reaction is about them, not about you. We have a tendency to take things personally, especially when someone’s overreacting, but the reality is, most of the time it has nothing to do with us. If you can detach from their emotional storm, you’ll see it for what it is—a storm that will pass. Don’t engage with their drama; focus on staying calm and in control of your own emotions.”
Conan O’Brien:
“That’s it! I mean, I’ve had people come on the show and go on bizarre rants, and if I let it rattle me, I’d be a mess. But instead, I just keep thinking, ‘This isn’t about me, this is their moment.’ And when I stay calm, they either settle down, or they keep being weird, but it doesn’t affect me. It’s like being in the eye of the storm while the chaos swirls around you. You have to stay centered.”
Johnny Carson:
“Exactly. The moment you react to their craziness, you’re giving them the power. But when you stay calm, you’re keeping the upper hand. I used to have guests come on who were clearly nervous or didn’t know what to say, and instead of letting their nerves affect me, I’d focus on staying relaxed. Eventually, they’d relax too. It’s like your energy influences the whole room.”
David Letterman:
“It’s funny how that works. If you stay calm, it almost forces other people to either calm down or look ridiculous for being worked up. I mean, have you ever tried to keep arguing with someone who’s totally calm? It’s impossible. You just end up feeling like the crazy one. That’s why I always loved when things went off the rails on my show. The weirder it got, the calmer I got. It’s like a challenge—‘How cool can I stay while everything’s blowing up around me?’ It’s actually kind of fun!”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“David, that’s so true! It’s almost like turning it into a game—‘How Zen can I be while the world burns?’ So, Mark, let’s get practical here. When we’re in the heat of the moment, and someone’s acting irrationally—like when your boss is flipping out over something that’s not even your fault—what’s the first thing we should do to stop ourselves from snapping?”
Mark Gungor:
“Great question, Nick. The first thing to do is take a deep breath. Seriously, just breathe. When you’re about to react emotionally, that breath gives you a split second to reset. Then, remind yourself that their behavior is about them, not you. Don’t take the bait. Stay calm and remember that you’re in control of your reaction. It’s not always easy, but the more you practice it, the better you get. And over time, you’ll find that it becomes second nature to stay cool, no matter what’s happening around you.”
Conan O’Brien:
“That’s such good advice. I mean, we’re all human, and it’s natural to want to snap back when someone’s being ridiculous. But if you take that beat, like Mark said, it makes a world of difference. And the best part is, when you don’t react, the other person doesn’t know what to do. It’s like they’re expecting you to meet them at their crazy level, but when you don’t, it just fizzles out.”
Johnny Carson:
“Yeah, it’s almost like they run out of steam. I’ve had moments where someone was clearly looking for a reaction, but when I didn’t give it to them, they just sort of… deflated. It’s powerful to realize that you don’t have to engage in their chaos. You can just observe it and choose not to be part of it.”
David Letterman:
“And it’s kind of satisfying, isn’t it? It’s like, ‘You can lose your mind all you want, but I’m not coming with you.’ I think it’s one of the most freeing things you can do—just stay calm and let other people wear themselves out. Plus, it makes you look like the grown-up in the room, which, let’s be honest, doesn’t happen all that often for me.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Right! So instead of jumping into the emotional tornado, we just let it spin around us while we sip our metaphorical coffee and stay chill. Got it. Mark, this is brilliant stuff. I’m already imagining myself as the Zen master of calm, while everyone else is losing their marbles.”
Empathy and Adaptability in Handling People
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Alright, let’s move into some deeper territory. We’ve all been there—dealing with people who are irrational or unpredictable is hard enough, but then you realize, ‘Oh no, I actually have to understand them now?’ Mark, you talk about empathy and adaptability as keys to handling irrational people. I mean, I’m all for adaptability when it comes to my Netflix recommendations, but how do we apply that when someone’s being absolutely bonkers? Are you saying I should not only roll with their craziness, but also empathize with it? I’m just trying to keep my sanity here!”
Mark Gungor:
“Nick, you’re definitely not alone in that! It’s tough to look at someone who’s being irrational and think, ‘I should really understand where they’re coming from,’ instead of ‘How do I escape this conversation?’ But the thing is, when you approach irrational people with empathy, you’re not agreeing with their behavior—you’re simply trying to understand what’s behind it. Most of the time, irrational behavior is rooted in fear, stress, or insecurity. By recognizing that, you can adapt your approach and handle the situation more calmly.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Empathy is huge, but I’ll be honest—it doesn’t come naturally when someone’s going off the deep end. Like, when someone is flipping out over a tiny issue, my first instinct isn’t, ‘Oh, I wonder what trauma they’ve experienced to make them react this way?’ It’s more like, ‘How fast can I get out of this situation?’ But Mark, you’re right. Once you start thinking about what’s driving their behavior, it’s easier to handle it without losing your cool.”
Johnny Carson:
“Exactly, Conan. You’ve got to realize that people aren’t always acting out of logic. A lot of times, there’s something deeper going on, and if you can tap into that, you’re better equipped to handle them. I had plenty of guests who came on the show and acted weird, but instead of trying to control them, I’d adapt to their energy. Maybe they were nervous, maybe they didn’t know what to expect. The more empathetic you are, the easier it is to roll with the punches.”
David Letterman:
“I think empathy is like a superpower when it comes to dealing with difficult people. And adaptability goes hand-in-hand with that. The more you understand where someone’s coming from, the better you can adjust your approach. I’ve had interviews where the guest was clearly out of their element—nervous, uncomfortable, or just weird—and if I tried to stick to my plan, it would’ve been a disaster. But by adapting to what they needed, I could make the moment work. You’ve got to be fluid, not rigid, especially when dealing with unpredictable people.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Okay, so you guys are saying that empathy isn’t about agreeing with or excusing the craziness, but about understanding what’s driving it. I get that, but here’s the thing—what about the times when you’re dealing with someone who’s just plain irrational for no apparent reason? Like, you’ve been empathetic, you’ve adapted, and they’re still acting like they’re auditioning for a soap opera. At what point do you say, ‘Alright, empathy time is over, I’m out’?”
Mark Gungor:
“That’s a great point, Nick. Empathy doesn’t mean you become a doormat. It’s about understanding where the behavior is coming from so you can respond better, but it doesn’t mean you have to stick around if the person is toxic or abusive. Adaptability comes into play here. You might start by trying to empathize, but if it’s clear that the person is beyond reason, you have to adapt your strategy and create boundaries. You can be empathetic and still protect your own mental and emotional space.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Oh yeah, boundaries are key. You can only go so far with empathy before you realize, ‘Okay, this person is in a different universe, and I’m not buying a ticket to join them.’ There’s definitely a line where you have to say, ‘I understand you’re having a hard time, but I’m not here to be your emotional punching bag.’ Adaptability isn’t just about adjusting to someone’s energy, it’s also about knowing when to shift gears and protect yourself.”
Johnny Carson:
“Exactly. Empathy gets you a long way, but you’ve got to know when to pull the plug. There were times on my show where I could tell a guest was nervous or uncomfortable, so I’d empathize and adapt, trying to make them feel at ease. But sometimes, no matter what you do, it doesn’t work. That’s when you switch gears and steer things in a different direction, or even wrap it up early. It’s about being flexible without letting people walk all over you.”
David Letterman:
“I think what Mark is saying is, empathy is the first step, but it’s not the whole game. You start with empathy because it gives you insight into why someone’s acting the way they are, but adaptability is what lets you manage the situation. And part of adapting is knowing when to say, ‘Alright, I’ve done what I can. Time to move on.’ You can’t fix everyone, but you can definitely control how you respond.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Right, so empathy is like a tool to help you understand what’s going on, and adaptability is how you manage the chaos that follows. That makes sense. But let’s get real—how do you maintain empathy when you’re stuck with someone who’s pushing every single one of your buttons? I mean, sometimes people are just out to poke the bear, and the bear in me wants to roar. Mark, how do we stay empathetic when all we want to do is lose it?”
Mark Gungor:
“It’s definitely not easy, Nick, but it helps to remember that everyone’s fighting a battle you know nothing about. People act irrationally for all kinds of reasons—stress, insecurity, fear, you name it. If you can remind yourself that their behavior is more about what’s going on inside them than about you, it’s easier to stay calm and empathetic. But that doesn’t mean you have to tolerate disrespect. The key is to balance empathy with adaptability—be kind and understanding, but know when to shift gears or walk away if necessary.”
Conan O’Brien:
“That’s the trick—realizing that when someone’s acting out, it’s usually not about you. I’ve had people come on my show in the weirdest headspaces, and I’d think, ‘What did I do to deserve this?’ But when you realize it’s not personal, it’s a lot easier to stay patient and even laugh at the situation. And when empathy runs out, you adapt. You change the subject, throw in a joke, or just smile and wave as they self-destruct.”
Johnny Carson:
“Conan’s right. Sometimes just acknowledging that it’s not about you is enough to keep you calm. And humor helps too. If you can find something funny about the situation, even if it’s just in your own mind, it lightens the mood. I used to have guests who were totally off the rails, but instead of trying to control them, I’d just think to myself, ‘This is going to be one for the books,’ and go with it. It’s easier to be empathetic when you’re not taking it personally.”
David Letterman:
“Yeah, empathy doesn’t mean you have to put up with everything, but it does help you see things from a different perspective. Like Mark said, once you understand why someone’s acting irrationally, it’s easier to deal with it. But you’ve also got to be adaptable—know when to switch gears, set boundaries, or even bail out. Empathy without adaptability is like having a car with no steering wheel—it doesn’t get you very far.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“So what I’m hearing is, empathy is great, but if the ship is sinking, adaptability is the lifeboat. You start by understanding people, but when that doesn’t work, you’ve got to adjust your sails and steer clear of the iceberg. I think I’ve got it—be kind, but keep my boundaries intact. I’m starting to see how empathy and adaptability are like the dynamic duo for dealing with irrational behavior. Thanks for the masterclass, guys!”
Self-Awareness and Letting Go of Control
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Alright, folks, here’s where things get real. We’ve talked about rolling with the chaos, laughing it off, and empathizing with people who are being unpredictable. But what happens when we are the monkeys? Mark, you’ve mentioned that self-awareness is crucial—knowing when you’re losing it, when you’re being irrational, and when it’s time to just let go of control. So here’s the million-dollar question: how do we recognize when we’re the ones acting like the star of our own circus, and how do we stop trying to control every little thing?”
Mark Gungor:
“Nick, I love that question. The truth is, we’re all guilty of being the monkey sometimes. Self-awareness is about being honest with yourself—realizing when you’re the one causing the chaos, not just reacting to it. And letting go of control? That’s where the magic happens. We spend so much time trying to control people, situations, outcomes, but the reality is, control is just an illusion. The more we try to hold on, the more we struggle. But when you let go, it’s like you finally get to relax and enjoy the ride.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Oh man, self-awareness is like looking in the mirror and realizing, ‘Wow, I’m a total maniac right now.’ I’ve definitely had moments on my show where I was trying to control everything, and it only made things worse. The guests would go off-script, the sketches would fall apart, and I’d just keep thinking, ‘I can fix this!’ But the truth is, you can’t always fix it, and the harder you try, the worse it gets. It’s when you let go of that control and laugh at yourself that things start to turn around. It’s like, ‘Okay, I’m a monkey today. Let’s roll with it.’”
Johnny Carson:
“Conan’s right. The harder you try to control the chaos, the more out of control it feels. I had so many shows where nothing went according to plan—animals escaping, guests saying the wrong thing, or things just falling apart. But what I learned was that those moments weren’t failures—they were opportunities to embrace the unpredictability. And it starts with self-awareness. You’ve got to realize when you’re holding on too tight, when you’re trying to script life instead of letting it unfold.”
David Letterman:
“It’s funny because the more you try to control things, the more obvious it is to everyone around you that you’re not in control. There were plenty of times on my show when I’d try to steer things in a certain direction, and the more I tried, the messier it got. That’s when I’d have to stop, take a breath, and realize, ‘Okay, I’m the problem here.’ Once you have that self-awareness, it’s like a light bulb goes off. And Mark, I think what you’re saying about letting go of control is key. Sometimes, you just have to say, ‘This is out of my hands,’ and enjoy the chaos instead of fighting it.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“Right! So self-awareness is about recognizing when you’re the one who’s pushing too hard, trying to control everything, or even making things worse. I mean, we’ve all been there—micromanaging, stressing out, trying to force something to go our way. But here’s the thing, Mark—how do we actually let go? I feel like letting go of control is one of those things that sounds great in theory, but in the moment, it’s so hard. How do we go from trying to control everything to just…letting it be?”
Mark Gungor:
“That’s the tough part, Nick—letting go is hard because it goes against our instinct. We like to think that if we just try harder or think more, we can control the outcome. But the reality is, we can’t control most of what happens around us. The key to letting go is shifting your mindset. You’ve got to remind yourself that life isn’t about controlling every little detail—it’s about adapting, enjoying the moments, and accepting that not everything is in your hands. It’s freeing when you realize that you don’t have to be in charge of everything.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Absolutely! It’s like trying to catch water with your hands—the tighter you hold, the more it slips away. I used to stress out about every little thing going wrong on my show, and it made me miserable. But then I started embracing the chaos. If a sketch bombed, I’d laugh at it. If a guest went rogue, I’d roll with it. And it was freeing. Once you let go of trying to control everything, you realize life is a lot funnier—and a lot more enjoyable—when you’re not the one trying to script it all.”
Johnny Carson:
“That’s exactly it, Conan. You’ve got to know when to step back and let things unfold. One of my favorite moments on The Tonight Show was when an animal completely escaped its handler and chaos ensued. I could’ve panicked or tried to control the situation, but instead, I just stood back and let it happen. The audience loved it because it was real. Life’s like that—you can either try to control the situation and get frustrated, or you can step back and enjoy the show.”
David Letterman:
“And let’s be honest—sometimes the best things happen when you let go of control. I’ve had segments that went completely sideways, but when I stopped trying to force it back on track, magic happened. It’s like the universe saying, ‘Relax, I got this.’ The more you resist, the worse it gets. The more you let go, the better things flow. It’s not easy, but when you do it, it’s a game-changer.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“So you’re saying that the magic happens when you stop trying to control the magic? That sounds like a Zen riddle, but I think I’m getting it. Letting go of control is about trusting that things will unfold the way they’re meant to, even if it’s not how you planned. Mark, is this what you mean by letting go being freeing? Because I can imagine that it’s pretty liberating to not feel responsible for every little thing going right.”
Mark Gungor:
“Exactly, Nick. It’s about freedom. When you let go of control, you stop carrying the weight of everything needing to go perfectly. You stop thinking, ‘I have to fix this’ or ‘I need to make this work.’ Instead, you think, ‘Let’s see how this plays out.’ It doesn’t mean you stop caring—it just means you stop stressing over things you can’t change. Life becomes more about the experience than the outcome, and that’s where the real joy comes in.”
Conan O’Brien:
“Yeah, letting go is freeing. It’s like giving yourself permission to just be part of the chaos instead of fighting it. I mean, look at all of us—we made careers out of things going wrong! If everything had gone according to plan every night, none of us would be sitting here right now. The best stuff happens when you embrace the madness.”
Johnny Carson:
“And that’s the beauty of it. Letting go doesn’t mean giving up—it means trusting that things will work out, even if they don’t go the way you expected. Some of the greatest moments on my show were completely unscripted. It’s the same in life. When you let go of the need to control every outcome, you open yourself up to unexpected opportunities and experiences.”
David Letterman:
“It’s like the more you let go, the more in control you actually feel—if that makes sense. You’re not fighting against the current, you’re just floating with it. And when you stop resisting, you realize that things usually turn out better than if you had tried to micromanage them in the first place. It’s counterintuitive, but it works.”
Nick Sasaki (Moderator):
“So, to sum it all up, we’re saying that life is a bit of a comedy sketch—you can try to control every line and scene, but the real gold happens when you stop trying to be the director and just enjoy the performance. Letting go of control means letting go of stress, and honestly, who couldn’t use more of that? Mark, Conan, Johnny, David—thanks for the masterclass on how to be Zen, even when we’re all acting like monkeys.”
Short Bios:
Mark Gungor:
A best-selling author and speaker, Mark Gungor is known for his humorous and insightful take on relationships. His book, Treat Them Like Monkeys, uses laughter to help people navigate life’s unpredictable moments with grace and patience. Mark’s workshops and talks combine humor, real-life experience, and practical advice.
Conan O’Brien:
A legendary late-night host and comedian, Conan O’Brien has charmed audiences for decades with his quirky humor and quick wit. Known for embracing on-air mishaps, Conan turns chaos into comedy and always manages to make the unpredictable hilariously entertaining.
Johnny Carson:
The king of late-night television, Johnny Carson hosted The Tonight Show for 30 years, becoming a beloved American icon. Famous for his smooth handling of unpredictable live TV moments, Johnny set the standard for balancing humor, patience, and charisma in the face of chaos.
David Letterman:
As a late-night television pioneer, David Letterman is known for his dry wit, clever interviews, and offbeat sense of humor. His ability to turn awkward, unpredictable moments into unforgettable comedy made him a household name, keeping audiences laughing for over 30 years.
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